Was I wrong to borrow from my mum's account and repay it?

[Acaciagirl]

Hi,
im 46 divorced and spend a lot of time looking after my mum. She’s 80 and has some issues- mobility etc. she’s also getting confused over things- this being investigated.

I have power of attorney over her money and health. She has a property worth 300k ish mortgage free, about 200k saved and a very good monthly income,

I struggle financially and have, on occasions borrowed from mums account and then paid it back asap. I’ve not asked mum beforehand as she’d worry however I know that she would always help me.

I mentioned this to a friend who said that what I’ve done is terrible and that I should be ashamed. I feel awful now. I’ve never taken money with the intention of keeping it, I’ve only ever borrowed. How do I live with myself now.

What you have done is illegal under PoA terms. Taking without her permission is theft, even if you have full intention of paying it back. If you were ever found out in a situation where you could not pay it back, you could face prison. Never do it again.

Just ask your mum. Explain you have cash flow issues, and ask if you can borrow from her temporarily. Write out an IOU with a payback schedule and date for completion, and ask her to sign it. She can say 'Oh, keep it" as much as she likes. You can just reply, ' Thanks but I will repay it, otherwise I'd feel umnable to ask again.'

I have PoA and have done this on my mother's behalf for a family member who needed temporary financial assistance, as I know 100% my mum (who has dementia) would be distressed to know someone she loved was struggling while she has so much sitting in the bank, and in sound mind she would definitely do the same. But it cannot be done without her permission and a written, signed repayment schedule, making it clear this is a loan, not a theft.

Where do you live op? In Scotland the POA laws are slightly different.

To you it wasn't, emotionally. But it is legally, and that is what matters. You need to realise you have put yourself in an incredibly vulnerable position. If a random audit were done of her finances, they'd want proof this was agreed in advance.

Why didn't you ask your mum? It's her money and it doesn't matter how much she has - the money belongs to your mum and you took it without asking. Don't do this again.

Actually, unless you asked the OPG for permission, you were breaking the regulations:

"You must apply to the Court of Protection for any other type of gift or donation, even if the donor has given them before. These include:

paying someone’s school or university fees
letting someone live in the donor’s property without paying market rent (anything they pay below market rent counts as a gift)
interest-free loans"

www.gov.uk/manage-lasting-power-attorney/property-financial-affairs

Sadly the office of the public guardian is absolutely toothless. The genuine abuse of the POA system in the UK is hugely under reported as the people being abused by it are mostly Incapable of knowing they being abused by the very nature that they have a POA.
I think they have only very recently got an investigation dept.and perhaps a handful of investigators .
OPs situation is obviously not abuse - but the only reason we can pass judgement is because she TOLD us ! There is absolutely no regulation of POA’s except they are ‘required to keep accounts which the OPG can ask for ‘ with this system the OPG is purely reactive to reports of financial abuse - where the abused lacks capacity to know.

I believe that anyone managing the financial affairs of those without capacity need to provide a very basic record of transactions and payees every year to the OPG. as a legal requirement. Not just when asked.

You wouldn’t have to do that unless she was in need of care and had spent all her money up to the 23k (or what ever it is) cut off is. That’s the only time her accounts would be looked into, and OP has paid it back. It’s not like she’s taking out 10k at a time and just keeping it.

Even with extortionate care prices, it would take a good few years in a care home to get through 500k and meet the threshold for social care taking over payments.

I had POA when my dad was in a care home for three years before he died. The only thing I spent from his account was the care home fees and weekly trips to the supermarket for the treats he wanted and care products.

I kept all the receipts in a diary and wrote in it when I bought things and why.

I was never once asked about it by anyone.

I only kept it incase he lived long enough to have to apply for the LA to take over payments once his money had dwindled, but that never happened.

This.

Thankyou.

Yes she can, if her mum agrees and has capacity, which it appears that she has. Mild occasional confusion does not equal lack of capacity.

You have LPOA for your mums best interest, not your own.

Again, financial LPA is active from the moment an attorney has been made. My daughters used it when I, a fit and active person, was in another country when a legal document needed signing in person and not online.

Only the health LPA only comes into action when the donor loses capacity.

It depends whether the question in section 5 has been answered with yes or no. The donor has to specifically sign to say they want it to be able to be used immediately.

Well it isn't stealing actually. There has to be an intention to permanently deprive for theft to occur!

I think I do understand how it works! Nothing I said in my post was inaccurate . You might have added on a few provisos but I am sticking to what I wrote, which was intended as an overview of how LPAs are set up.

As I previously said, I advise anyone to refer to the very helpful guidelines that are provided to help the LPA to be set up . Far better than taking advice from randoms on a website.