How do we ACTUALLY solve the rift between dog people and non-dog people?

[Talkingtomyhouseplants]

Inspired by yet another dog thread where all the SAME arguments are trotted out again and again:

The Pro Dog People say:

• The dog is my family, you need to treat it like family
• Why would I get a dog just to leave it at home?
• It’s just a dog, it’s not bothering anyone
• My dog is less annoying than your child
• I love my dog more than I love people
• The dogs are ALLOWED to be there so it’s okay that I bring them places
• If my dog isn’t invited, I would probably choose to stay home as I prefer most dogs to people anyway
• My house is my dog’s home too, I won’t be shutting it away for anyone
• My dog isn’t dangerous - he’s a bit softy.

The Anti Dog People Say

• I’m allergic/scared/don’t like being around them - please keep them away from me
• It’s a pet, not your family
• A dog is not a child
• I won’t have dogs in my house
• Dogs are dirty and unhygienic - they shouldn’t be in shops or places where you eat
• I’m sick of dogs barking and jumping up at me in public and I keep stepping in dog poo
• There are too many places that either actively allow dogs, or more often don’t challenge people who bring them anyway so dogs eventually become allowed
• Dog owners are entitled and pushy and this is why they are now suddenly everywhere
• It’s dangerous to have dogs around children
• Dogs can bite/kill people
• There are too many untrained dogs who are treated like people

Same arguments on both sides, every time.

In my personal life I can think of at least two situations where these opposing views are creating real rifts in families because the dog person wants to bring a dog, and the non-dog person doesn’t want to be around said dog. I can feel it becoming more polarising in society generally, anti dog people are more vocal about being anti dog and pro dog people are more pushy about full inclusion of dogs in human spaces.

So what is the actual solution?

I’m not anti dog. I used to have one but I treat them as dogs, not people. I don’t want them in cafes, shops, pubs or restaurants. I don’t want them jumping up at me. If you want to bring yours to my house it will be shut in the kitchen, not allowed in my lounge.

A dog on the floor under a table in a cafe or pub that welcomes them is not treating them as people. Unless that’s how you treat your kids.

And you're entitled to treat your dog however you choose.
But if I choose to take my dog to a dog friendly pub or cafe and she doesn't approach you or cause a nuisance, I am doing nothing wrong.

There is a gastropub in my town that allows dogs, but they have a sign up saying that if your dog gets too excited then you will be asked to go outside.

When we were last there, my mum's dog was laying happily on his mat. Two tables down had two women sat there with a small dog. The dog was on the lap of one of the ladies, and every time she put the dog onto the floor, it would emit the most horrid shrieky bark until she picked it back up again. The staff did nothing, but they were getting evil looks from everyone, even my mum's dog 😂
They left in the end, with the menus on the table and unfinished drinks.

Same, but I have in a park. It was a young spaniel. You know that age where they are growing into their legs, and they are all rubbery and wiggly and excited at everything. That stage. He did jump up, and I was more than happy to say hi. The owners told me off, as they didn't want people encouraging that behaviour. Fair enough.
Some dogs who jump up are young and still learning proper manners.

Yep.

If someone with a dog hears that my child is afraid, the majority of the time, they do they very unhelpful ''he/she's friendly'' like it will magically cure my child's fear or decide that their dog will be the special dog that will also magically cure my child's fear like I haven't already thought of and tried introducing dogs to him instead of just getting their dog away from my child.

and that's a big part of the problem. Far too many people have poorly trained dogs or offer unhelpful advice like I've never heard it or tried it before when all I want is for them to remove their dog.

and dogs are everywhere, it wouldn't be so bad if they were all trained well and stayed away but that doesn't happen. The whole reason my son is scared of dogs in the first place is thanks to a poorly trained one.

Dogs shouldn't approach children and children shouldn't approach dogs. Sadly both happen sometimes

I can understand that. My mum has used that phrase when a child was afraid of her dog.
We were in a cafe, and he was on his mat on the floor. A family came in, and their little girl saw him and edged away and pressed herself against the wall. Her mum said she was scared of dogs, and my mum said it was ok, but her dog was friendly. Not to diminish how the girl was feeling, but to reassure her that he was not going to jump up or attempt to harm her. The little girl came over and ended up sitting on the floor with him and stroking him for about 10 minutes. Her mum then made a comment about maybe they will one day be able to get a dog.

He is very well trained though. I keep saying my mum should get him assessed and trained as a Pet as Therapy dog. He is just a very gentle boy.

I can understand how annoying it is when a dog is running at your child or jumping up and the owner says they are being friendly. A scared child does not know that. It is the same when out of control dogs do the same to dogs on a lead.

That example isn't too bad because the dog wasn't jumping up at her. Every single time it is said to my son, it is said while my son is screaming his head off and the dog is jumping up at him. Some dog owners even laugh when they say it like it is funny my son is so frightened.

So we just do what we can to avoid places where dogs are most likely to be such as open grassy areas like parks and cafes just in case they are dog friendly. It just isn't worth the stress and anger it causes.

I can see how that is frustrating. It was when people said it when their dog was jumping at mine too. There were occasions that I had to let her lead go and let her run because she was so scared.
Obviously you can not do it with a child, and you hope the owner pulls their dog away.
It is a shame it has made the world a bit smaller for you and your son.

My son is in a wheelchair so can't physically run even if he wants too. This heightens his fear, as well as being at a closer level to dogs unless they are small breeds.

It's awful for him and nothing has helped so far. Even around dogs who don't bother him, he just can't relax because he doesn't trust that they won't eventually try to hurt him.

I do sympathise with you @Talkingtomyhouseplants. This/these family members are being unreasonable.

A real incident. My husband came out in a rash on his face. I thought he was a bit sunburnt because it had been hot weekend.
By Monday I said that is not sunburn. By Wednesday my husband had extreme dermatitis. His outer dermis was peeling off. He had had a reaction to the dog. We live in the countryside, the dog does role in fox poo, gosh you guys that don’t like dogs will be saying alleluia! Anyway anti histamines and time he healed. So I do have experience.

As for you @Talkingtomyhouseplants, I
am speaking to my 33 year old DD about boundaries. You are a young family. You have a baby and all of the stresses that come with. Your DH has allergies and reactions. My DGD 15, has many allergies, EPI pen level. You have to set boundaries and don’t look back. Anyone that tries to impose on you things beyond your boundaries has to be stepped away from. You may feel it is breaking up a family to do so, but the constant tension does a silent and insidious harm.

I have family members that I care for immensely, but I have to set boundaries because what they want and what I want and who I am and who they are not always aligned. By way of compromise and diplomacy some of us get there. But not all.

Then the people are in the wrong place.

A dog owner taking their dog to a dog-free space - entitled wanker.
But equally
Someone going to a dog friendly/dogs allowed space and complaining about dogs being there - entitled wanker.

Do your research, pick a space that suits your needs. Yes, if you need a dogs allowed space, it will restrict your options. Yes, if you need a dog free space it will restrict your options. C'est la vie!

Dont come on here talking sense. It ruins the outrage!!

Can we also add - telling someone that takes their dog to a place that welcomes dogs that just because they can, does not mean they should, is also an entitled wanker?

I do think it sort of depends on the dog though - I’m not sure dog friendly should mean any dog. A mastiff, a Great Dane, a Cane Corso. All very different to a CKC Spaniel.

So the rift healing seems to be going well then.

Any well behaved dog, and that can be any breed.
Some tiny breeds are utter knobs.

Oh ho. What a win that response was. Makes you look so clever.
I was at a castle today for a family fun day and whilst in the queue for my child to go on a ride there was a woman standing right beside us with a massive Rottweiler. My son is very scared of dogs. At one point my son was looking at the ride and the dog owner obviously wasn't concentrating on her dog which has wandered over to my son who got a huge fright when he felt the dog sniff him. The owners like 'oh sorry!" In a laughing, relaxed way and it just angered me so much because "im sorry" is used as a "sorry he got a fright" rather than "sorry my dog made contact " or even more realistic: "I'm sorry I wasn't in control of my dog to restrain it should something have happened". If the dog went for my son there'd have been fuck all anyone let alone her could have done. It was absolutely massive. Nah...save your sorry's control your dog better.

Can I ask do your family have the dogs you mention. Because you don’t find those dogs sitting at their owners feet in the average dog friendly cafe.

I have a cocker spaniel. He doesn’t really bark, but without training is jumpy. But surely there aren’t many cockers in towns and cities.

And to add to this "oh don't worry, they are friendly"....pft anyone that has a dog says that and some end up biting. The fact is, you can never be 100% sure.

I don’t think so - just from a pure taking up space point of view with a lot of them in small cafes it’s inappropriate. Then some breeds are more intimidating, and more dangerous

My dog would be laying on her mat and not bothering anyone. She was used to cafes and would just mind her own business.

Oh no they have a golden retriever…which is inappropriate in a cafe but for completely different reasons (won’t sit still)

😂