How do we ACTUALLY solve the rift between dog people and non-dog people?

[Talkingtomyhouseplants]

Inspired by yet another dog thread where all the SAME arguments are trotted out again and again:

The Pro Dog People say:

• The dog is my family, you need to treat it like family
• Why would I get a dog just to leave it at home?
• It’s just a dog, it’s not bothering anyone
• My dog is less annoying than your child
• I love my dog more than I love people
• The dogs are ALLOWED to be there so it’s okay that I bring them places
• If my dog isn’t invited, I would probably choose to stay home as I prefer most dogs to people anyway
• My house is my dog’s home too, I won’t be shutting it away for anyone
• My dog isn’t dangerous - he’s a bit softy.

The Anti Dog People Say

• I’m allergic/scared/don’t like being around them - please keep them away from me
• It’s a pet, not your family
• A dog is not a child
• I won’t have dogs in my house
• Dogs are dirty and unhygienic - they shouldn’t be in shops or places where you eat
• I’m sick of dogs barking and jumping up at me in public and I keep stepping in dog poo
• There are too many places that either actively allow dogs, or more often don’t challenge people who bring them anyway so dogs eventually become allowed
• Dog owners are entitled and pushy and this is why they are now suddenly everywhere
• It’s dangerous to have dogs around children
• Dogs can bite/kill people
• There are too many untrained dogs who are treated like people

Same arguments on both sides, every time.

In my personal life I can think of at least two situations where these opposing views are creating real rifts in families because the dog person wants to bring a dog, and the non-dog person doesn’t want to be around said dog. I can feel it becoming more polarising in society generally, anti dog people are more vocal about being anti dog and pro dog people are more pushy about full inclusion of dogs in human spaces.

So what is the actual solution?

I love dogs. Neither of my young DC are keen, so we struggle with family gatherings and parties with dogs unless the owners are willing to segregate the dogs for a while. Mostly they’re happy to do this and we support that by, eg, not staying for hours and hours, occupying the DC if the dogs do need to come back into the house/garden for whatever reason, and generally trying to meet people half way and make sure everyone’s happy. You know, like most normal people behave.

Because someone things their pet should be treated like a human I bet.

Dogs definitely don’t belong in John Lewis, no matter how much you like them.

I honestly avoid the place now after seeing several dogs in our nearest branch.

who would think a dog enjoys shopping, or that a department store is an appropriate place for a dog? I can just about get my head around seeing them in garden centres, but not in the parts of the fancy ones with clothes, stationery, greetings cards etc

This whole issue could be solved very quickly if only dog people respected the fact that not everyone is as obsessed with dogs as they are.

Job done.

The 'rift between dog people and non-dog people' doesn't exist, except online. In reality, almost everyone of both dog and non-dog persuasion rumble along just fine.
Where problems occur, it is down to a different rift -- between people who have normal levels of empathy, reasonableness and commonsense, and people who don't. Whether they are doggists or anti-doggists, some people are a bit selfish and behave stupidly.

Their unreasonable actions or words get posted online and then the inevitable tribalism, virtue signaling and enjoyment of a good old bust-up creates a parody of the original situation and of the motives of everyone involved. I don't think I have ever, in real life, encountered anyone who caused me any inconvenience whatsoever by being either unreasonably pro-dog or unreasonably anti-dog. So if/when it happens, I will just see it for the rarity it is.

I always do , but by the same principle parents of teenagers should pick up the copious amounts of litter left by other teenagers where I live

Agree it seems way more prevalent on Mumsnet.

Irl I don't know anyone who doesn't check if it's okay to bring the dog. Yes they may leave earlier if the answer is no. So far I've not known anyone have an issue with that.

I've known far more people assume their partner/child is invited than their dog. Used to drive me nuts if I made dinner/drinks/general evening plans with a friend, arrange childcare etc and then turn up to find they'd brought their toddler/preschooler/child. Or before people started having children many would bring their partner along without mentioning it/them being invited. I generally don't mind, if I'm warned in advance. Maybe these people would also the type to be bringing their dogs without notice, just they had children rather than dogs!

If my dog shits near other shit, I'll pick it up in the same bag. In the same way I also pick up litter while we're out, if I'm near to a bin. I sometimes pick random ones up, but not as often, as I'm generally running with him.

It really isn't the job of dog owners to pick up all of the shit everywhere. Unless you extrapolate that to the entire population and say that we all have to correct everyone else's antisocial behaviour. I assume you are an antisocial behaviour hero and fix all issues you come across, else surely you're as bad as the people doing it?

Respect each other, problem solved. 1. Train your dog properly from a puppy , even small dogs 2. Respect signage like keep on a lead 3. There’s places where dogs are allowed - take your well trained dogs there, places that say no dogs, respect that. 4. Ask politely if your dog can be with you at private events, respect the answer if no 5. Allergies are real, don’t moan if you are told that is the reason your dog can’t come 6. Clean up after your dog.

follow the above and we can live in harmony.

If you don’t like dogs Wetherspoons & Costa do not allow dogs for starters, plenty of full restaurants don’t either

If the anti dog people stopped exaggerating their experiences with dogs, that’d be a start. Although, a dog walked past me in a park isn’t quite as dramatic as being knocked over by one every time you leave the house.

I love all animals and I love my little dog but I don’t believe animals are more important than humans. It does get hard at times to stick to this belief though as some humans are nasty and intolerant but I try. I think @Talkingtomyhouseplants the issues you raise are just another symptom of our increasingly selfish society.
In the olden days when I was young dogs just sort of existed. They were loved and looked after but not put at the centre of everything as they sometimes are now. To be honest it was the same with us children in those days 😂.
I was recently sat on a bench with my little dog on my knee still on his lead watching the world go by. A large off the the lead dog ran up to us barking loudly. My dog didn’t react but the dog got a bit close for comfort so I gently shooed it away. The dog’s owner came marching up to me and shouted ‘she was only barking you know’. This is the sort of thing that ticks people off especially if you are a not a dog lover.
I did laugh this morning when I heard a man telling his little dog they were not going into M&S because it’s too expensive.

It’s really simple. Like another poster upthread says, the default position is no dog.

Nobody should have to put up with any animal they don’t want to.

And that’s the end of it.

The dog people need to respect the non dog people.

Costa do allow dogs.

Both of your lists are silly nonsense OP.

We’re dog people. About 50% of our friends are too. We don’t make dogs our personality any more than non dog people make it theirs.

I own a dog we love him and care for him but I don’t expect other people too! Obviously if people come to our house the dog lives here and I’m not going to shut him away so if they don’t want to be around a dog dont come.

But I don’t -
take my dog off lead in public places as his recall isn’t 100%
I don’t take my dog to shops/cafes / bust built up areas
i I don’t expect to take my dog to other peoples houses, if he’s invited great if not also great
i have trained my dog to be alone for periods of time so I can flexibly go out
i clean up after my dog

That’s the middle ground. For years dogs have lived in communities and everyone has managed fine. The only thing that has changed is the expectation of some dog owners that their dog be allowed everywhere and also poor / lack of training so dogs behave badly and owners don’t take responsibility.
No one wants to get rid of dogs but if people own dogs they have a responsibility to train them and shouldn’t expect everyone to put up with their pet.

I absolutely love dogs. I think they are wonderful animals. However, I recognise that they are not human and are not suited to all aspects of human life.

I think most dog owners are not very good at being dog owners. If they have chosen an unhealthy breed then they clearly didn't do their research and it is difficult to respect them as dog owners. People also have dogs in inappropriate places. Dogs like to roam around large spaces and they like the company of humans or other dogs. A lot of dog owners cannot provide that for their dog.

Dog owners are also completely capable of controlling their dog when motivated to do so. They are just being incompetent or lazy when they don't.

Only a tiny percentage of people have the time and the right set up to have a dog.

I have to disagree with you there, it's real. I was sat in a park just this morning and a small dog off lead came sniffing round my feet, close enough to be touching my joggers. I ignored it as I don't like dogs around my feet and the owners probably called it away 7 or 8 times as they were walking on past while it continued to sniff round my ankles.

There are so many out of control dogs and inconsiderate dog owners.

I am told several times a year that if my sight problems make dogs around my feet an issue for me that I should wear a notice and/or walk somewhere else.

I was thinking this the other day. I'm not a dog person, don't mind ones which are well behaved but find it crazy now they're allowed in places like Costa and regular shops. If they're not a guide dog it's just ridiculous. Don't get me started on puppicinos 🙃

I'd be more than happy to have separate areas for people who love dogs and don't love dogs in terms of housing, more so because since COVID it seems that actually disciplining them has gone out of fashion. Not meaning to tar everyone with the same brush but on my estate now it's honestly like a dog kennel is in the street and it's constant 🫠 owners are so selfish and just noise blind to it, I'm sure of it. Again, I know it's not all owners who are like this.

The main issue is some dog owners thinking the whole world loves dogs when it just isn't the case and there has to be leeway both way ultimately.

Solving the rift is easy. Non dog lovers need to put up with the fact that dogs aren't going anywhere so they need quit their whining. The same as those who have to put up with other things they don't like: slow drivers, loud children, tourists etc. We all have to put up with things we're not keen on.

On the flip side dog owners need to ensure their dogs are well behaved the vast majority of the time and are safe 100% of the time.

Society is about give and take and tolerance. It's really that simple.

I love dogs, but agree with a lot of your 'anti dog' crap

I agree here - dog and non dog zones like smoking in the 90s is probably a good idea. There was a restaurant I went to down in Eastbourne that had a dog section and a non dog section. This seemed to work well - the restaurant didn’t lose out from business from people who had brought their dog on holiday and nobody had to sit near a dog if they didn’t want to.

Housing is interesting but I would love to see it - currently live in a very built up area with lots of neighbours (meant to be moving very soon for partly this reason!) and there is just so much barking all the time it’s very grating.

I really like dogs

However, I don’t think they should be allowed in blocks of flats. Yes, I live in a block of flats. Yes, it causes issues.

I’m just putting that point of view because I suspect most posters are thinking of houses and public places.

Small flats are really really not the place for dogs. I can’t see it changing though

My previous place was originally pet free - I don’t care if anyone has a goldfish and to be honest I don’t care if they have a cat because cats don’t bark!

But they changed it. I give up. I really hope the trend goes away, but it’s not going to.

I say this as somebody who says hello to dogs in the street and pets them. Actually, I think we could do with some public transport rules as well. There was a woman on the Tube yesterday looking very uncomfortable because of the dog sitting next to her (on the owner’s lap, it didn’t have a seat to itself).

I am dog person. I agree with others. Dogs being allowed everywhere and often being badly trained pisses off many of us too.

But that doesn’t solve a lot of the problems - that only addresses things like having dogs in pubs and cafes.

How do you solve the issue of allergies? Do we not care about those people?

What about family where one person wants to bring a dog and others don’t want it there? Someone said above, bringing a dog should not be the default.

What about the issues of hygiene?