How do we ACTUALLY solve the rift between dog people and non-dog people?

[Talkingtomyhouseplants]

Inspired by yet another dog thread where all the SAME arguments are trotted out again and again:

The Pro Dog People say:

• The dog is my family, you need to treat it like family
• Why would I get a dog just to leave it at home?
• It’s just a dog, it’s not bothering anyone
• My dog is less annoying than your child
• I love my dog more than I love people
• The dogs are ALLOWED to be there so it’s okay that I bring them places
• If my dog isn’t invited, I would probably choose to stay home as I prefer most dogs to people anyway
• My house is my dog’s home too, I won’t be shutting it away for anyone
• My dog isn’t dangerous - he’s a bit softy.

The Anti Dog People Say

• I’m allergic/scared/don’t like being around them - please keep them away from me
• It’s a pet, not your family
• A dog is not a child
• I won’t have dogs in my house
• Dogs are dirty and unhygienic - they shouldn’t be in shops or places where you eat
• I’m sick of dogs barking and jumping up at me in public and I keep stepping in dog poo
• There are too many places that either actively allow dogs, or more often don’t challenge people who bring them anyway so dogs eventually become allowed
• Dog owners are entitled and pushy and this is why they are now suddenly everywhere
• It’s dangerous to have dogs around children
• Dogs can bite/kill people
• There are too many untrained dogs who are treated like people

Same arguments on both sides, every time.

In my personal life I can think of at least two situations where these opposing views are creating real rifts in families because the dog person wants to bring a dog, and the non-dog person doesn’t want to be around said dog. I can feel it becoming more polarising in society generally, anti dog people are more vocal about being anti dog and pro dog people are more pushy about full inclusion of dogs in human spaces.

So what is the actual solution?

I work in a pet friendly office. When we are hiring it is made very clear to potential candidates that the office is pet friendly (dogs, cats) and that I have my dog in my office with me.

I have yet to meet anybody who has an issue with it, but its a bit of a boho community office. Could see that it would be difficult in a more formal office setup.

Apparently we don't need to eat if we don't have a packed lunch and are out for the day with our dogs 😂

Get a takeaway and sit outside.
That's what I would do if with someone who literally couldn't go in to the cafe.
But ultimately dogs are not people. Children are people. Nobody is allergic to children.

If the cafe allows dogs inside then there is no need to do that.

You can do that with your kids if the cafe owner allows dogs and you’d rather not sit near one.

Ok so not family then. My local salon owner
brings her little dachshund into work and a not a peep is heard from her. She walks around, but mainly lies in her bed. Not awkward at
all.

I have family who live in London who have never and will never like or have dogs. They accept that I do have one. They come to my house, their children by the way adore my dog, after me initially being told by their parents that they don’t like dogs.

They have never told me on entering my house that it smells. And believe me, the nature of some of my family members they would if it did. I have never told them that they have to accept that my dog is a member of
my family. My dog has never bitten them, jumped up on them, barked at them.

My sister, not a dog lover, has diagnosed my dog as having ADHD, because he lacks in confidence and can be a little frightened of loud noises and also because he looks behind him when he is walking and looking at me and walks into to doors and furniture. I think she is a little disappointed that that is the only thing she has to say about him. He doesn’t go near her and she leaves him alone.

It is such a shame the majority of non dog people here have such bad experiences of dogs. Us dog people are being honest when we say our dogs are trained and well behaved and we promise we will never ask to bring them to your houses. And you do not have to go to homes that have dogs, you can refuse. Family member or not.

Mine is pretty boho (shoes off is common, sofas in offices that are occasionally used for a power nap) but unless I missed it there's no policy that says dogs are allowed.
It's set on fairly large grounds which have a no dog walking policy but this doesn't seem to apply to the offices!
My guess is nobody has thought of it.
One person brought in their cat (I think to take it somewhere else later) and the cat was very upset and loud. Sadly my boss was off site that day...
Occasionally people bring the dog in if they are on their way for a walk but have forgotten something in their office. That is fine. But we've had two colleagues who have brought in dogs for a whole day, repeatedly, and other people are very much "awww what a lovely dog, here, give me a cuddle" while I retreat to my office.

But that's not a rift between dog people and non dog people. That's a rift between people who feel that they are entitled to do what they want regardless and people who, for whatever reason, disagree with them. You won't ever solve that problem. Its a "people attitude" problem not a dog owner problem.
You will see many posts on here about "I want to meet up with/invite to my home my BF for a quiet coffee and she insists on bringing her noisy/adorable but lively/badly behaved/insert description of your choice child/children along." Same problem.

Dogs are allowed in any workplace if the owner sanctions it.

And of course there’s assistance dogs.

@MNLurker1345 can you not accept that people are ALLOWED to not like dogs in their spaces however well behaved the dog is?
We're not talking "love me, love my dog". I wouldn't want to go to a hair salon with a dog, nobody is asking me to love the owner, just go into the same space.
There's a good reason why we, as a society, tolerate and provide services for children. The same is not true of dogs - where they are tolerated, it's for business reasons.

You space is your house, you’re quite within your rights to not accept dogs there. The rest of the planet you have to share with other people. Some of them will have dogs.

Businesses are allowed to welcome dogs onto their premises. If you are offended by the mere site of a dog who is minding it's own business then go somewhere else. The person sat there with their dog is already a paying customer.

I love my dog, I'd like to take her everywhere.

However, non-dog people need to be a lot more accepting that feeling like this doesn't give you the right to actually be everywhere or allow poor dog behaviour like jumping up etc.

The country has gone nuts with so many divisive polarised opinions on many things, dogs are just one. I blame social media algorithms for installing such black and white views into people and a complete lack of respect for other points of views.

I am a dog, and believe it or not cat person. I have both and I know people who don’t like animals and they come to my house ( shock!) and yes I put my dog in the front room as she gets way too over excited when we have guests so if someone hates dogs that’s probably really not acceptable. Basically I read the room and adapt. Isn’t that what we are all meant to do?
i don’t take my dog out to the shops as that’s far too much hard work and for me what’s the point?! Tbh I really don’t like dogs in shops/ supermarket unless they are support/ guide dogs and I imagine most dogs don’t like it. I think many take their dogs everywhere due to separation anxiety which certain breeds are prone to ( so I avoid as cannot imagine living with a dog that needs to be everywhere I go) but also a lack of socialisation as a puppy, often now we have the off shoots of lockdowns and inexperienced dog owners having these dogs.

I grew up London always with lots of dogs in my family, I never saw dogs in shops, some cafes, never a restaurant unless a guide dog. But dogs have always been welcomed in
most pubs and why not. It’s a very typical British thing to go to the pub after a country walk with your dog, as long as the dog is well behaved I see nothing wrong with that whether you like dogs or not.

I'm not going to sit outside on the off chance that someone with an allergy comes in!
If someone approached me and said their child had an allergy and would I mind taking the dog outside, then I would do.

Loads of people without dogs love dogs. I've lost count of the amount of people that have fussed my dog and told me that it's made their day. Your view that no dog should be allowed in a cafe is certainly not the norm.

Of course I can accept that @drspouse. Did you not read my full post, “you can refuse family member or not”.

I get the impression that non dog people would prefer that dogs are not permitted to public places.

They are, and I personally think it makes society a better place. You don’t, fair enough!

We all should be held accountable for our dogs behaviour.

We accept that you do not like dogs, we accept that you would rather they weren’t in your space, we accept that you have the right to feel all manner of feelings and emotions about them. But they are allowed in some public places. Too many for your liking clearly.

But me taking my dog into a cafe and him sitting quietly at my feet does you no harm. If he is badly behaved he does. If someone had a serious pet allergy and made it known to me of course of I would remove my dog.

Dogs are permitted to public spaces for a number of reasons. It is a generalisation to say it is only for business purposes. Business owners are also pet owners and animal lovers too.

I've said elsewhere that I was in a hair salon in Edinburgh some months ago while an older woman was there with her lapdog. It piddled all over the floor.

What astonished me was the fact that the [dog] owner didn't even offer to clean up the mess - it was left to one of the trainees. This is the kind of thing that gives dog owners a bad name.

As it happens, I'm just in from tying in some hawthorn shoots on my hedge and I've had to bleach the soles of my trainers: yet again, someone has failed to pick up their dog mess. A clump of excrement has gone in my brown bin and I've had to bleach the trainers in order to avoid throwing them out.

I'm honestly sick of it. On another Mumsnet thread two or three weeks ago, someone looking after a dog for a friend was asking how they could deal with the brown patches appearing on their lawn. Other posters jovially informed the OP that she should simply take the dog for a walk outside.

So it's all right to have your dog piddling elsewhere, so long as it doesn't affect your own property?

Aye, I'm a bit peeved. Having to clean off excrement will do that to you.

To add to what others have said, yes it has become worse since Covid, since there are now many more dog owners than there used to be, judging from those I see parking their cars in the layby in front of my house, so that they can take their dog(s) to crap all over the paths and verges here.

They obviously are aware that they're being anti-social, otherwise, they'd simply walk around their own neighbourhoods and allow their animals to defecate there.

We ALL (dogs and humans) have personal space. NO other dog or human should be in that personal space without our permission. In public if a dog is not in your personal space, then it's fine it's there, unless it's a no dog zone. If you cannot keep your dog out of other people/dogs personal spaces, your dog should stay in your private space ALL THE TIME.

In YOUR private home the dog goes where you say. If a guest has a problem with the dog, they can request the dog be confined to areas where they are not for the duration of their visit, but it is ok if the house and dog owner says no to this.

In public spaces the owner of the space has every right to keep dogs out of the whole space or part of the space as they wish, and, if they do allow dogs, individual owners must keep those dogs out of other people's personal space, or spaces that will sometimes be in other people's personal space, such as walk ways or toilets.

@WearyAuldWumman, I winced as I read your post. It is horrible.

We now have to chip our dogs by law but there is nothing we can do about bad dog owners, unfortunately!

Dogs can be trained to use a toilet area. My dog wouldn’t just pee all around the garden. My dog is trained to the point I can take him or direct him to a spot and say “go pee”.

We are in the kitchen and I have read my
post out loud and the dog jumps up at hearing me say it.

I can only apologise for the bad dog owners and say I wish something could be done.
Sadly we, the human race are the best and the absolute worst species.

It’s a problem for people with allergies though - real assistances dogs are few and far between so much less likely to cause an issue

I don't think you should be apologising for bad dog owners. Just because you both own a dog, it doesn't mean you're anything like the bad dog owner!
I walked in the local park with friends earlier in the summer and there were loads of teenagers walking away from where they had been sitting, leaving behind a huge amount of litter and food. We asked them to please clear.it up and were swore at. Do I now think all parents of teenagers or teenagers themselves are bad. No.

Thank you @MNLurker1345 . It just seemed so ironic after I'd already been commenting on this thread.

I really do like dogs. I've never owned one myself - my grandparents had two very much loved dogs and my late husband grew up with them. He refused to have any more because it broke his heart when his last dog was PTS.

I'm just so very tired of dealing with the mess round here and constantly having to empty buckets of water over my lonicera hedge to stop the new growth being burnt away by dog piddle. (As you can imagine, the hawthorn hedge takes care of itself - it's the adjacent verges and path that are being used for excrement, however.)

Sorry - I'm just a bit fed up. I'd enjoyed myself at an exercise class and had had a lovely lunch at the local farm shop...and then I finished up with a noseful of excrement smell when I all I wanted to do was to potter with a bit of gardening.

Is it not just a case that you deal with allergies if they become an issue? If it's a dog friendly office and no staff have dog allergies, there's no issue with allergies. If you want to hire someone and they say they are allergic to dogs, then you make a decision whether you keep the dogs and not hire the worker or introduce a dog ban?
Same with other allergies. Staff are free to eat peanuts in the office until you hire someone with an airborne nut allergy, and thean you revise things?

Yeah just line dog lovers are oblivious and in denial

used to work for one of the utilities you can always tell when there’s a dog in the house I will give you it varies for takes your breath away to just a whiff
but in typical dog lover fashion calling people morons because they can smell dog in a ridiculous
To be fair most dog owners become nose blind to the stench so they genuinely don’t believe you can smell them and the rest of the world is wrong

Don't worry, you won't starve! It won't be long enough in between meals.