Why is one child so different when we have parented them alike?

[differentchildterribletwos]

How can one child be so different when we did everything the same??

3 girls: 11,9 and 7. All had the same formula milk, all had the same vaccines, all weaned at the same stage on the same food. All went to the same nursery at the same age. Baby and toddler classes etc. The same routines at bedtime etc.

Dd1 and 2 had their moments (terrible twos !) dd3 started early with the tantrums and they haven’t stopped. She is absolutely the hardest work and I don’t know what to do. Every day is screaming.

She has screamed every bathtime every time we brush her teeth or wash her hair. She screams if we are going out or staying in. She barely eats. Says most meals are disgusting and refuses 90% of all food offered.

Takes 2-3 hours to go to sleep (shouts from her room or repeatedly gets up)

We did everything the same yet she’s so different.

School say she is disruptive and she is behind in a lot of areas but they say she is capable. We asked if they thought she had SEN and they said no it’s a choice she’s making.

Im exhausted. Is this just a prolonged phase ? Has anyone had similar ? I feel bad for my older two as the behavior ruins any days out holidays or anything at home.

It does sound like PDA traits but with an unusual level of self awareness/ being able to verbalise her feelings. You definitely need a referral. Agree trying language recommendation for PDA may help annyway although I’m not convinced in this case she won’t see through it. Surprisingly tik tok can be very good for strategies. I find it easier too see it modelled/real life examples rather than just reading words on a page. It’s difficult when school isn’t on board but it doesn’t mean you can’t go ahead with an assessment anyway

I have three sons and didn’t have the problems you’ve described. If anything my third was more chilled. It’s true the third doesn’t get as much attention as the first one or two, but they have also never known anything different so they don’t know it’s different. But each child has a different personality so reacts differently to the same set of rules, ND or not.

What have you read that suggests poor parenting and what changes should be made?

Sounds like she has sensory processing differences and neurodivergence.
ignore school and go to the GP.

PS - children dont ‘choose’ to be disruptive for the hell of it. There is always a reason. Sensory is a biggie and so is masking.

My DD has language processing disorder. She’s very articulate, can express her views and opinions very well but her cognitive processing is very limited. She looses about 60% of what people say to her, her brain moves faster than her understanding - so if she’s asked to do something she understands that you want something from her but doesn’t fully understand what that is, but her brain starts working on it with limited understanding of what she should be doing. It means she’s constantly on the back foot because she never quite gets what’s being asked if her unless it’s staged and she’s scaffolded. Because she’s very articulate people think she’s just being difficult when she gets it wrong, when actually she needs support.

I mention it because she would scream too - through the pure frustration of not getting things right, and not being able to explain why. Assessment with SALT showed she needed very short sentences (4/5 words) to be able to retain information and neurodevelopmental assessment has shown she processes received language very differently to expressive language. We’ve been able to stretch her retention of received language but she still needs short, single stage instructions.

I guess it’s about knowing there are many different ways of processing, and not every difference is autism or ADHD. I’ve had teachers tell me she’s purposely ignoring instructions it is doing it on purpose when really she’s just completely confused. She too would say “I’m just not doing it” because it was better for her to be seen as knowing but choosing not to than having no idea what was expected of her (and feeling stupid).

Id start with a full hearing assessment and SALT assessment.

I used to wonder this about my identical twins. They have the same genetic material raised in the same household, same food etc. Completely different personalities.

I agree she sounds ND. Read up on pathological demand avoidance (pda)

I donlt think nayone here can say if she is ND or if she is what type if she is. DD1 was urged towards ASD but when assesssed - and it was a long wait and lot sof hoops to jump - they said no but try serval other things - which she did turn out to have. We've been told no and misdirected thoughout their childhoods.

The usually advice to to get hearing and sight tested - then start reading round and looking and start down most fitting path but most diagnostic paths are a long road. Hence me suggesting reading round working out what works for her.

DS short term memory meant we had to keep instructions short - he struggled when some teachers didn't and that was taken as disprution. It was glearing obvious when we did some spelling support work at home and he couldn't retain a single sentence of dication - school still insisted it wasn't a issue. The language procossing delay a PP mentions is a thing in our family anyway - put under quriks for older generation - put under dyslexia for me and ADHD for DD1.

Even if she is NT a change in approach towards her is clearly needed and ND approaches won't hurt a NT child.

Teeth cleaning - is it the taste of toothpaste, the foaming - the brush bristles - we got on better with electonic brushes but they can cause vibrations that could be upsetting her. Is it control - does she need to be in charge- does she respond to siblings doing brushing at same time - everything with DD2 worked a bit then stopped - as with many things with them all ity's been a mathon not a sprint ie long term we get there. We had years getting DD1 to hair wash was a nightmare - it an issue that went away slowly - still can't get DD2 to use a shower still she has baths or washes and frequent lcothes changes - though recent hoilday home she did try one there.

She could be really bored.

I was a bit like that at school - not disruptive, but I could already read well when I started so I was tremendously bored a lot of the time. I used to smuggle in books and sit on them!

You've had good advice about possible neurodiversity. There are solutions to quite a few of the things you've mentioned, but they require some effort, creativity and some throwing of money at the problems.

Won't brush teeth: maybe she's super sensitive to tastes like mint. DD couldn't tolerate regular toothpaste till around 12. We used some strawberry flavour stuff and then discovered Hismile.

Uncomfortable clothes - there are specialist suppliers like Sensory Smart.

Food restrictions - look at advice on Beat website. Give more control over when and what she eats. DD finds it very difficult to eat with other people.

We had years of extreme sleep difficulties from ages 3-7. Melatonin really helped.

A good book is Jeffrey Bernstein's 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child.

The PDA Society's PANDA strategies are good.

could it be PDA (demand avoidance) a type of ASD? Sounds like it might be. Maybe google symptoms and see if you recognise them?

I've read all your posts but not all the replies.
The school is talking bollocks, I hate how woefully ignorant and dismissive so many schools are about these things.
I have a child who was diagnosed with autism just before their 7th birthday, has always masked in school, I got nowhere with school and had to go the 'Right to Choose' (RTC) route through the GP.
You need to research RTC providers, look at their website and contact them directly for screening questionnaires and referral forms, then go to your GP armed with that info. Get the referral in ASAP.
In the meantime, check out the PDA Society website and research "demand avoidance" and low demand parenting. It was a game changer for us.

I like the book The Explosive Child. It takes the child as it finds them and doesn't worry about whether they are NT or ND, or whether the behaviour they express when dysregulated is anxious and and tearful or challenging.

Missing the Mark/Eliza Fricker talks about children who see straight through traditional parenting strategies and this chimes for me. My son at 3 saw straight through the "pick one of these 2 options" forced choice. School got tricky at 7, diagnosed with autism at 9, EHCP at 14. Very bright, very much unable to cope in a school of 1500.

We know other children who have trodden their own path from a young age. Not always diagnosed with autism, sometimes seen as NT but "challenging" and struggled to cope in school. I think these will likely turn into very successful adults eventually, but the journey is not easy for them or their parents. I think sensory /ND assessment is a good idea but read up and put eg sensory strategies in place anyway. There's not a tonne of extra help you're given with a diagnosis, so crack on with using things like The Explosive Child and ND friendly strategies and figure out what helps.

Eg giving DS permission to leave a social group and chill in his room when he is getting overwhelmed has headed off a lot of incidents.

Have you tried flavourless toothpaste?

We are all our own personalities and how can you compare that besides a possible n.d issue.
Get the child looked at or assessed.

It’s not that schools are “shit at spotting it”. it just seems that every single child is neurodivergent somehow at the moment!

Out of a class of 26, (year 4 ) the entire class seems to be; there’s not one that you could say hasn’t got some sort of need. It’s just some are way more needy than others, and with their ways of showing it.
To have a “neurotypical “ child is actually unusual, or so it seems, lately.

It is very difficult to manage so many ( and that’s just one class, the other classes are very, very similar).
It was not like this when I started TAing in 2008, it is steadily increasing, year on year.
We all do our utmost to meet the variety of needs, but it is becoming increasingly difficult.

Everything you have posted, initially and on various replies lead to an idea of PDA which is part of Autism. Girls are diagnosed far less frequently than boys and schools tend not to look for Autism or similar in girls.

Issues with food
Issues with clothing
Issues with teeth cleaning
Issues with hair brushing
Issues with sleeping
Screaming to self soothe
Screaming to avoid following an instruction
Making a choice that wasn't offered to avoid co-operating
Screaming to avoid getting up and facing another stressful day

Have a look at this website for more information
https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda/autism-and-pda/

No child chooses to be this stressed and anxious over everyday life. Whatever school says, your daughter is not choosing to refuse or choosing to disrupt. She just cannot make herself be compliant and schools are all about compliance. If you can afford private and there is a Waldorf or similar alternative school or similar near you, she may be happier there.

‘A choice she is making’ ?? Fucking hell. Yeah because kids love being miserable. I think you know there is more at play here. Girls are constantly missed and ignored especially for sen your poor daughter (and poor you as well as its so tough!)

100%

Yes, and a berry one. It’s not so much the taste more the requirement to do a task she seems to hate anything that is expected of her, it’s like there’s a complete block she can’t get past.

Have you looked up Pathological demand avoidance?

You just described my younger sister. She was hard work, super fussy over food, prone to epic melt downs and tantrums, wouldn’t sleep. In her thirties she was diagnosed with autism, adhd and has oppositional defiance (even now, whatever you suggest, no matter how positively, she will rebel against, even if it will help her). She was basically overwhelmed and overstimulated all childhood.. Back then female autism wasn’t a thing, we just thought she was highly strung and rebellious.

But she has just done a degree, lived most of her life overseas, has two gorgeous teen boys etc. she is successfully adulting with a bit of support from me and my mum.

Your DD may not be ND, but create quiet spaces to go, create down time, fill her space with fluffy blankets, fidgets, low lighting. If she falls apart after school or after a busy event or day trip, it is because you are her safe space. Do her clothes annoy her? Let her pick fabrics.

Something is going on, the worst thing you can do is assume she is just naughty or difficult, her brain might just be regularly over stimulated.

She sounds neurodiverse - I would look at PDA as well - the U.K. PDA Society website is good.
People have wildly different personalities, I thought it was 50/50 nature/nurture?

Definitely explore the possibility of autism, because it sounds like both sensory stuff and transitions set her off, which is pretty suggestive.

Have you tried - and you may have - a tick list of tasks before bed laminate list - then she she ticks off and you check they are all done 5-10 minutes before bed with reminder the short list needs completeing in 10 minutes.

It sometime helped mine - and help embed the routine requirements.

DD2 a nightmare with food - siblings are a help one got her eating some soft fruit which she hasn't for years- but letting her put things on plate at evening table meals helps a bit - though sometimes I think she just moves stuff round.

My younger by 16 months sister and I couldn't be more different.
She has 8 children, I have 1.
She is a nasty racist bigot. I am the biggest lefty.
We were both brought up the same way, with the same opportunities and boundaries.
I firmly believe it's nature rather than nurture