Family upset we will not let them use our second home

[Dogsintheforest]

We bought a second home at the end of last year with a longer term plan of living there full time, but for now using it whenever we have the chance. It’s in a picturesque and popular place to visit.

Since we have bought it we have had family asking if they can use it for holidays. We laughed it off at first but they have continued to ask more in the last few weeks due to school holidays and nice weather. We have said no because we don’t know when we will be using it and want to be able to decide at short notice to go there. We also want to leave clothes and personal items there, we like our privacy and although we aren’t there full time it is our home.

These family members are very put out. Every time we see them they’re bringing it up directly, or being sarcastic saying things like, ‘are you sure you can spare it, we know you don’t like to share things’ when I offered them a slice of cake. Apparently if they had another home in a place like we have, they would let everyone use it and they can’t imagine not wanting to share.

In hindsight, I wish we hadn’t told them, but we have. We are now avoiding seeing them because we can’t be bothered with their comments but i liked seeing them before this happened so don’t want to lose these relationships.

We are not talking about the same thing, and we are not in the same world apparently.

I have the keys to my parents house, I go whenever. I do call them first, I am not a barbarian. I leave my keys to my home here if one of my siblings need it and I am not here. I'l leave the keys for my parents, my friends.

I have been left keys to places because I was welcome but the owners were on holiday.

My family has been raised the same way I have 😂so I know I can trust them, and my friends wouldn't be friends if they were behaving like animals.

expecting her to clear weeks in her diary to vacate her own bloody property
thank god no-one has the expectation when I visit people, or they come and visit me.

AGAIN, I didn't say the OP HAD to do anything, just that it was weird to have such a cold dynamic with people. If people prefer to pay for hotels and never want to spend time with friends and family, or ask for a favour or do them a favour, it's a free country. Maybe it's not weird, just sad.

It's the sort of question any normal person would ask or suggest once, and, once knocked back, not bring up again. What kind of person persists or pass-aggs \ refusal ?

@Dogsintheforest My parents have two holiday lets. A very select set of family and friends are allowed to go (grandparents when they were young enough to drive themselves, children, parents' best friends). Anyone going is offered a week out of season, and is asked (not required, just politely asked) to take something or do something, eg replace a lightbulb, put up Christmas decorations. My partner and I do any odd jobs we can see need doing and have fetched a TV from Currys or waited in for fridge deliveries, that kind of thing.

But perhaps it's easier with it being a business - to some extent the family business - we know it needs to pay for itself in order for us all to enjoy the perks, and we know that my parents get to decide who stays and when that's on offer.

We had a mobile home right on a fabulous beach when the children were young.
We had zero interest in going abroad and it was 60 minutes away.

The children adored it.
From friends who also had one I was advised to be vague about where we were as they said the amount of people who would surprise them with a visit when they were on a day out or try and invite themselves was a dose.

My best friend had a key and used it as much as we did, but off season as her children were grown up.
She loved it.

I never knew she was there from the condition she left it in.
But I didn't want anyone else using it and only closest friends were invited to visit.

I didn't want to be feeding and entertaining people, I was busy enough with my 4 children!

Can’t face reading TFT. I was very generous with my little flat. Family and friends. Free for family and a low rates mate for friends from the UK and overseas. Over a decade it completely exhausted me. The cleaning, laundry, pee and worse on the toilet seat, clearing out the pantry apparently misunderstanding the deal to replace any consumables….(people rarely leave the place as they found it and all used our linens/towels and left them for me to wash and iron.) I even had some friends invite a host of others during “their” week…people I didn’t know all sleeping on sofas and the floor (and were daft enough to post photos on SM). That’s where the expected generosity got me. Now …I don’t, with the exception of my adult DS and DDIL, and my GDC which I am happy for (it’s still hard work). Cautionary tale….don't do it OP, or set very, very clear boundaries. Just keep saying “it’s not available”. Had the family clubbed together, that would be an entirely different thing.

OP has said this about her parents:

'Some parents aren’t these lovely people who sacrificed everything for their children. Some have affairs, only see them once a month, prioritise step children and aren’t always there to talk to.

There are worse parents than mine, but mine were very selfish during my teen years especially.'

Her parents did things that I cannot for the life of me imagine me doing to my children. Their behaviour sounds quite shocking and selfish so I can see why and how OP can refuse to let her parents use her holiday home for free.

Ye I would to my parents of course.

Op has every right to have a choice.
After the posts with experience of wronguns - people will be more wary.

Obviously not in the same world. Or even the same planet.

I have a set of keys for the PIL - in case of their having an emergency. Likewise they have a set of ours for the same reason. Even having those keys, we ring the doorbells and do not let ourselves in on arrival, though we will do so during the visit itself.

I do not have keys for my sisters’ homes - in other parts of the country - and would not expect to just rock up and use their homes in their absence. I would only be visiting their homes to see THEM, by arrangement so that I knew they were home, free and didn’t have other guests. I wouldn’t dream of just setting off to use their homes in their absence just because I know they aren’t there and I fancy a free/cheap break. It’s their home, not an air bnb. It’s their children’s and/or partner’s home - why should they have to accept that level of intrusion into their personal space without their consent?

It’s about boundaries. Clearly your family don’t have any - that’s great if it works for you all and you’ve all consented to that arrangement. Many of us don’t operate that way. Not a single one of my friends does, even the ones with keys and carer responsibilities agree arrival times with their aging relatives, knock/ring the door bell before opening the door and call hello.

It’s not that I don’t trust my sisters - or they me - it’s that we go to see each other and their parters/family, not to cadge a free weeks’ free accommodation to a well-known holiday location.

I still think it’s weird to think that people think they have an automatic right of access to other family member’s homes. And the law would agree with me, otherwise individually owned property would be family community property, wouldn’t it?

Of course not everyone with a holiday home allows their friends and family to use it.

If one of my siblings got a holiday home I would wait to see if the offered for me and DH to use it. If they didn't I would not be making snidey remarks to them like a spoilt child. It's their home they decide who can use it

RIGHT?!?!

BUT I've got a whole load of 'read' messages from a relative which just reads in a list:

• Can you let us know when it's free next?
• Is it free in the summer?
• Can you let us know when the works are finished?
• Can we stay in October - any weekend is fine!

What I really want to say is "You already stayed in June, you left things dirty, you are taking the absolute piss."

But I've just left them on read for now...

I would only let other people use a second home if they were going to pay 90% of the going rate in rental, and pay for a cleaner to clear up after them.

In the case of your relatives, not a chance. You can bet they'd leave behind a lot of mess.

I really struggle with the concept of "stopping local people buying them". I'm assuming these houses are bought on the open market, so if local people want to buy them, they can? Someone not local isn't stopping them, they are just fairly buying them- unless they are paying massively over the odds?!

I think if someone works hard and has the money to buy somewhere they love to spend time, but can't practically live all year round (Probably because they continue to work hard in the original area), good on them! Do you say the same about people who buy caravans on holiday parks? It is essentially the same principle but with a brick building rather than one with a shelf life!

She has clearly said that they have bought it with the intention of living there eventually. You don't really have the right to make assumptions about someone's wealth or personal circumstances. It may have been bought with an inheritance that they wanted to invest in something they would use. Although maybe losing people that care enough to leave you money is privileged?? Obviously we don't know if that's the case, but that's sort of the point- being angry with someone and making wild assumptions about circumstances you don't know is just unnecessary.

No, she doesn't have to let anyone use her home, that she has bought, paid for and runs. In the same way she doesn't have to let anyone stay in her other home. You may think that makes her unkind, but that is entirely her choice. I think it is rude to assume that because someone has a spare of something that they will let you use it and if they don't that you can then bully them into changing their mind by making silly comments. No is a perfectly good answer in itself and doesn't need an accompanying reason.

you insist on twisting things, it's nothing to do with boundaries. It's funny, why does it bother you so much that people can call each other, and stay at each other place if or when needed?

people think they have an automatic right of access to other family member’s homes.
it's not that at all. Maybe because it's not an automated right, and people have been raised with the right boundaries and manners, thats' the difference.

not to cadge a free weeks’ free accommodation to a well-known holiday location.
wow what a nasty way to put it. I am glad my friends are not like you 😂

When my sibling call and say they're in London the next week, or my nephew is coming for the weekend, I naturally invite them over. If I am not here, I invite them and leave the keys. No one is saying you are wrong because you tell them to pay for a hotel and respect your boundaries 😂. Just that you are weird.

Just adding a voice of support for you here OP. We have a second home, used for four days a week every week by DH. We used to let friends and family use it but it was becoming a massive hassle, having to clean, tidy, prep bedding, sort keys, leave instructions etc. It got to the point where things were frequently getting broken, needing sorting etc that we said enough is enough, and stopped lending it to anyone. It's our space, literally H's second home, and it's too intrusive. Your family are being massively U.

Well I guess if utterly selfish behaviour were modelled by her parents it makes sense where op got it from.
and what's the excuse re in-laws?

It's all about the general dynamic isn't it.
There's a thread about friends recommending someone for a new job, that's normal for many of us.

If you have parents who are hosting family gatherings, often the entire Christmas, who have the kids around, siblings and friends who swap kids during school holidays so the others can work, just normal family and friends relations

maybe some people would find it normal to go on about their second home and refuse to invite anyone (absolutely no choice and as someone has to even mock it, yes we know it's legal not to invite people)

If you don't speak and are only see each other out of politeness once a year, and you don't trust, it's also weird to have to mention your holiday home

I've thought about this far more than I should have considering I don't have a second home and I'm with you.

I could probably cope with my children using it on their own, provided no one use my bed. It wouldn't feel like home otherwise.

Also, entitled people never look after things they feel entitled too!

YABU. I think you are either being really selfish or you don't like your family very much - or both.

If this was me (I like my family) I would get a calendar and plot out the dates that I would definitely NOT be using the house. I'd then create a family WhatsApp group and post the available dates with a strict first come, first served, no negotiations policy. When those dates were gone, the house is at my disposal for the rest of the year and unavailable. End of.

oh go on say it!

There is a strong whiff of entitlement about these people, they didn’t put their hand in their pocket once for Christmas?! Feeding 16 people is a lot.

They have been to it then, at Christmas no less which is an expensive time of year to go away a lot of the time. If they feel that strongly about a 2nd home then they can buy their own. Stand your ground @Dogsintheforest

I’m the same, I can’t buy a house where I grew up. Is it because of second homes or is it because of the local council failing to plan and build suitable homes for first time buyers? Do you work in the village? I can’t get a house there because my income isn’t high enough to buy a house in a desirable village of the right size for my family.

As a second home owner, I have sympathy for your view and I think there should be rules about the balance of second homes in a particular communities eg no more than 30 per cent and second or third home owners should be taxed higher and higher on each property they buy, and local councils should provide grants to local young couples for renovations.

In our case a young couple alone, even with a renovation grant, couldn’t have covered what needed doing to our property which had been abandoned by a local and was literally falling down. so there needs to be flexibility too among the local council when making local housing decisions.

For example there are lots of sizeable crumbling, unsafe, buildings in our village; one is an old brewery and one is an old hotel or inn with many outbuildings, which are falling down and there are few people who can take on the cost of renovation post Covid and the price hikes plus the COL crisis. In these cases, it would be great if there could be government or tax-payer subsidised private-public partnerships to convert them in to flats for young or very elderly local people.

What a nasty thing to say.
You'll stoop to any depth to find something unpleasant to say about the OP, just because she's made a different choice than you might or other people would.

And do you trust your family to leave the place as you would wish to find it? If so great. Not everyone has considerate immediate or extended family. I let a cousin use my place only to find out latee she was asking on behalf of her teenage daughter who wanted a girls holiday with all her mates. They left the place like a pigsty and drank all my wine. My pad has all my personal effects there, its not some spartan holiday let so yeah I do get wary of people mooching around elements of my private life.

I’ve got experience of both sides of this we have a second home in a coastal Mediterranean port and we use it as our second home but will be living there permanently soon. We have in the past let trusted friends and family use it and by and large it’s been a good experience they leave it clean and tidy and how they find it - we charge nothing and cover their electricity and water costs too. I started to get a little upset at being left receipts etc for things being replaced ( ie food staples or bin bags or washing powder etc ) did they expect reimbursement for the things they’d used and replaced? Or finding previously full things with dregs left - just enough for them to feel they didn’t need to buy another. Inevitably things get broken over the years but one friend sent photos of them standing on terrace furniture thinking I’d find it fun that my € 1000 furniture was being used as a trampoline etc. we have decided after this year never to let anyone use it again. I’m fed up of moving my clothes and hiding personal stuff - toiletries etc ( one sister delighted in telling me how lovely the Molton brown in the bathroom was and when I returned it had all been used from a full bottle to a tiny sliver).