Thread 2 Burnham : Coragem e Esperança.

[DuncinToffee]

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Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5556659-thread-1-burnham-esperanza-en-cada-corazon?page=40

I was very confused there for a second when I saw your post @DenizenOfAisleOfShame 😃Welcome.

Ah, my apologies. I thought I was posting on the Burnham thread. But thank you for the welcome. I do try to welcome those from this thread who post, intentionally or otherwise, on the other thread.

I can’t see any point in rudeness for the sake of it.

Welfare disincentives don't increase employability. Plunging people into poverty does nothing to make them a better fit for job roles or more attractive to employers.
This approach is favoured only by those who believe worklessness is a lifestyle choice rather than a circumstances brought about by poor match between offer and employer requirements. There is no evidence of which I'm aware that supports this belief, or indicates how many this applies to, to justify the thinking cutting welfare would resolve it.
All evidence suggests that a strong welfare offer, better housing, healthcare, sufficient funds to be 'job ready' in terms of health, appearance, mobility, increases employability when coupled with the right training and opportunities.

It’s very easy to post on the wrong thread by mistake as I know to my cost. You won’t get a hard time for it here.

I love this. It's a much kinder, hopefully and humane approach.

In the 80s I worked for a short time on the front line at the DHSS as it was then. One of our very long-term clients, I shall call her Shirley, was feared by us all as she could turn really nasty. She was chaotic and unpredictable. I think she had around six children.

One day her oldest child turned up alone. She wanted to make a claim in her own right as she was pregnant. At 14. I was heartbroken for her.

Now, what could have have helped that child not end up in that situation? Shirley was basically unemployable. Some people are, that has to be recognised. But they are still human beings and need warmth, food and shelter. Would cutting Shirley's benefits have helped that 14 year old not end up pregnant and on course to replicate her mum's life. No.

Its also pragmatic. The aim shouldn't be to drag people into work on pain of starvation, regardless of their aptitude or capability for the job. Who's going to employ them for starters?
The aim is to have young people moving into roles that are a good fit, and with enthusiasm because they know that being in the job will bring rewards. Its a carrot not a stick situation. Unfortunately some people often can't see beyond their own (unevidenced) belief that people 'don't want to work' and their emotional reaction that it's not fair to provide welfare, and approach the issue rationally.
There is lots of evidence of the link between strong welfare and more productive citizens.
There is also the fact that our welfare system is less generous than its been historically with no corresponding increase in employability.

Dd is about to fall into this group (officially finishes uni this week). Despite graduating with a first and sending many applications she has had two interviews so far but no offers.

She has a long term plan which starts in January if she gets it (she would be a good fit), and is now applying for anything and everything. I will be surprised if she stays out of work for long though.

I agree.

And actually by giving the right and targeted education, giving people hope, giving people employable skills and getting them into employment - naturally lowers the welfare bill.

Taking someone’s food off the table or taking away their ability to heat their home just disenfranchises them, makes the feeling of helplessness increase, reduces mental health.

It doesn’t miraculously get someone out to work.

Congratulations to little - little drummer. I hope she finds the right job soon

Burnham will give a speech on the funding of social care today

He has invited Kemi Badenoch and Ed Davey to meet with him to kick off cross-party conversations on reform.

Davey will attend via a virtual metting (he is on holiday)
Badenoch is sending Shadow Health Secretary Stuart Andrew.

Priorities isn’t it. But best Badenoch stays out of it - going on the last couple of years of comments about social care, she’s got zero interest.
Obviously Stuart Andrew is only attending in order to brief against it.

Very magnanimous of Burnham given what a nightmare Badenoch is. And she responds by sending someone else.

I agree. I don't want to write people off, but it would be wrong to ignore what decades of neglect, intergenerational poverty and poor access to services and opportunities has done to some people. But it's obvious that some people may never be considered attractive to employers. I mean, who would want Shirley caring for their elderly parent or serving them in a restaurant?
That's why it's crucial to target the upcoming generation with support and incentives. The younger the better.

Congrats to her on her result!

I see Farage is kicking off because no Reform attendance has been requested. Given that he isn’t currently an MP and nor is their health spokesperson I don’t know why he’d imagine they’d be included.

And Reform kicking off because NF hasn’t been invited. Spoiler: He’s not an MP.

Braverman complaining because according to her they are the largest party following the council elections. Someone needs to explain politics to her.

It’s an Establishment plot, apparently. Poor old Nige
Polanski very magnanimous, said he would have liked an invitation but the priority is fixing social care. The sceptical part of me suspects he couldn’t give a monkey’s about social care and is probably relieved no one asked him.

Another establishment plot? Another excuse to cry about being a victim more like.

Why would he want to be involved with the "establishment"?

Congratulations to your DD @Llttledrummergirl

Why would he expect to be included when he doesn’t think health is sufficiently important to give the shadow portfolio to a sitting MP?

That's actually made me laugh. He does think very highly of himself.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8mnvk4r48o

This a good article from the BBC. Congratulations to your daughter @Llttledrummergirl

Farage can get in the bin.

I’m very much reminded of my DDs’ birth mum, who came from a very dysfunctional background and didn’t stand a chance. It’s heartbreaking.