To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

[LettingTheBadThingsGo]

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

Hilarious post OP. A “country charge” is a tax. You just want less tax than the majority for reasons that seem to mainly be contempt for other people. I don’t want to live in a society where poverty or disadvantage means some people are fucked from day 1, or where a situation through no fault of their own means they become fucked at some later point in life. That’s not a society to me. It’s just a bunch of individuals fucking each other over.

Would criminals have to pay to go to prison?

What if someone can't get a job or can only work part time due to health problems and can't afford much? Do they just starve to death? And their kids?

People wandering on streets starving and looting/rioting?

I'm honestly horrified that anyone could want a society like this. Hopefully op just hasn't thought it through.

How can you have the money to pay for all of those things (this is an assumption) but also be this intellectually challenged (not an assumption) I think that is where we’ve gone wrong.

So a world where money rules?
We have that already.
and look where we are.
No thanks.

Your ideas are really simple, verging on the genius, OP.
If we can’t afford the things we need (want?) then obviously it simply is our own fault!
If we can’t get a job - well we can’t pay for healthcare, or policing when a crime happens, etc. So we will suffer for not getting the job: we should have tried harder - that’ll teach us not to fail, eh?!
If we have a life-long illness that develops when we’re an adult, presumably we’ll be ok for treatment until we can’t afford it. Hopefully the Assisted Dying Bill will be law then, though obviously we need to make sure we have enough money left to pay for the cost of that particular activity.
If we are poor, and have a pregnancy where the baby is diagnosed with a congenital condition? I’m not even going to go there.

OP, your ideas are inhumane. I
hope you’re never in any position of power over anything.

I doubt OP reads

All animals are equal.
But some are more equal than others.

Yikes.

Can I have some of what you’re smoking?

Every one for themselves
translated as law of the jungle
Means you don’t care if children die from starvation

leads to increased violence and crime

and it tends to cost those who can pay a lot more becuase the additional costs of your improved service are shared between the smaller group of people who want and can afford to pay - look at the americ health service as an example. Those who can afford an ambulance are paying significantly more than the majority even of our higher tax payers

Dear fucking god.

Awful set of ideas there.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

How, just for example, would someone who holds UK citizenship only do this on a practical, logistical, legal basis? Are you one of those arseholes who think that post "Brexit" everyone can just go to Ireland, and fuck the consequences for Irish people?

This might be a winner for stupidest thread ever.

And here was me thinking Ayn Rand was dead.

There are more people in the UK (and the world) than there are jobs. What's your solution?

I honestly can't work out if you are clueless, a bot or just awful. Do you have any idea how much our services actually cost? If you have had 2 children, you've likely cost the NHs more than you will ever pay in. So in your distopoan future we wouldn't have any teachers or ambulance drivers or people clean our hospitals, or via drivers or refuse collectors etc because they wouldn't be paid enough to be able to afford what you are proposing.

One of the stupidist things I have read here, and by gosh there is competition.

I think you will find it works like this in many third world countries. Not pretty.

ok.

the basic problem with this is that newborn babies need a lot of time and attention to survive.

so if a mum is going to look after a newborn baby to keep it alive she needs help from someone else to get food for her etc.

now this someone else might be the dad. It might be her parents. She might, in an advanced society, have saved up enough money that she can buy what she needs for enough time until she can get back to doing things at least partly.

human babies and children are a lot more likely to survive and thrive if they have several people (a family) looking out for them. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins etc.

humans are basically a social species and groups of humans survive much better than a single human on their own.

so that means that at times for any individual there will be times when the person is a net negative for the group (baby and childhood) and times when the person is a net positive (most adulthood).

so let’s translate this to modern societies.

if you get rid of the state completely (and in some countries where there is a failed state eg Somalia or others this is quite close to reality) then what tends to happen is that families become incredibly important.

you rely on grandparents/aunties/teenage cousins much more to watch the baby while you are doing something, if only one person in the family is in work they feel a responsibility to share the money with the wider family (because maybe in a few years they’ll be ill and lose their job and will rely on their teenage cousin for money).

groups of families cluster together into tribes.

This sharing of money is referred to as a “kinship” tax - there’s plenty of research on it see eg here

https://theconversation.com/kinship-tax-puts-the-brakes-on-business-kenyan-study-measures-the-impact-of-helping-family-231519

Alot of wages paid would have to go up so people have enough to save! Good luck getting that to happen.

Have you tried living on mimlnimum wage, just covering the basics? Alot of full time workers are on these wages. They would not be able to pay privately for all the services you mention.
And life would not continue as we know it without people in these poorly paid jobs.

A big chunk of the welfare bill is to stop these workers and their families ending up on the streets.

Thats just one of many many things wrong with your ridiculous plan.

What happens to people who are too ill, mentally or physically, to work?

Firing squad?

I've read some mad stuff on here but this post should get some sort of award for being the most bonkers thing in a long while. Just for arguements sake OP what would happen if I was knocked over by a car today and I couldn't afford the ambulance or the treatment, would I just be left in the road to die or under your glorious reign would i be taken to a poor person's "death centre" so I could expire without clogging up the road.

it's totally fine to have a different view but can you explain why you think as you do.

Clearly a wind up thread.

You wouldn't be getting an ambulance/police in 5 minutes because a. they likely wouldn't be many people doing the job if the wages didn't shoot up so they could afford to live in your world and b. the few that did exist would be far too busy dealing with the starving on the streets fighting to eat.

Who would pay for prisons? Definitely no ambulance/police in 5 minutes.

Not thinking it all through is an understatement.

Try reading ANY of the other replies here?

May I suggest you move to US or Dubai - may be more to your taste - have you ever not stopped and thought what if something went wrong in your life, severe illness, disability, accident to you or a family member - it can and does happen - high earning friend of mines partner got MND , suddenly not only could he not work but she couldn’t either and despite having healthy savings it’s remarkable how you can whip through those when you get next to no benefits ( because you have savings) and the only ones you get relate to their disability - you don’t want to move because of uprooting kids lives etc, and at a time partner is very unwell etc - even if you have insurance, quite often it will be on 1 family member and 60% and your lives are built on 100% - It’s why people in the US can end up in a severe mess and whijst life there can be good when everything is going ok and suddenly turns to shit.

have a think on this

And send the bill to the nearest relative!