To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

[LettingTheBadThingsGo]

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

nobody is dying in the street (unless they want to of course).

Nobody pays any tax or ni so if you find yourself disabled/ill then you have a bank of money to fall back on. Also with everything privatised insurance policies for things like healthcare would be common place for everyone.

But surely you would have to pay to have yourself removed from the road and taken to the 'death centre'. I hope you've saved for that you inconsiderate dead person!

Agree. Imagine uber style surge pricing for calling out the police or ambulance.

I don’t want a society where money is king. I think it’ll be lawless very fast. Crime will be huge.

Oh, hello OP. Thought you’d disappeared….

There are many questions put to you, so maybe answer those first before anyone does any explaining??

That used to be the system in England - fire insurance. Only there were lots of different companies, so that's what happened. You still occasionally see metal fire insurance plaques on the front of old houses, put there to show which company they were with. Then it was recognised that one building being on fire often leads to adjacent buildings catching fire, and a better system was devised...

No, it's wrong, because you or your spouse or your child might be be diagnosed with e.g. cancer tomorrow. And then you will end up in heavy debt that you will never pay, or living on the streets and dying, just like in the US.

Maybe the extreme poverty he lived through during his childhood, is what made him a very successful author!!! Not advocating for people to live in abject poverty.

Jail? Who’s paying for that op?

Fine. But business owners and employers must pay employees exactly how much money they are worth to the organisation. And pay as they go for all the infrastructure they use: roads, rail, the education of their employees, banking etc. None of this creaming 'profits' off of money made by employees. Those aren't profits if they were made on the back of somebody else's labour.

@LettingTheBadThingsGo who is going to advocate for you on the world stage? I assume politicians as our representatives both domestically & internationally are a waste of tim and money (healthcare, police, employment laws, trade deals, ...)

I'm struggling to believe anyone could be this stupid.

And if you're disabled or in ill health from the off? Where is this bank of money coming from?

Who would you have clear away the bodies each morning OP?

I may be unhappy with the current welfare system, but returning to the 1700s where there is no support, no safety net, and people died of cold while sleeping in the open, is not an intelligent suggestion.

Mumsnet shoud not have got rid of the laugh emoji.

And you reckon you could afford this do you OP? You have no idea of the real costs I suspect. Even if you personally can will all this all be affordable on a care worker or cleaners salary? What should those people do if they can’t afford it? If they cease to exist will you attend to every need you have by yourself?

You can achieve this Utopia today if you like. Go and live off grid in the wilderness somewhere and be self sufficient. If you use no utilities and don’t earn money you can’t be taxed.

Off you toddle.

What “bank of money” do I have to “fall back on” due to not being able to work due to my chronic and incurable illness? How would I pay for all my medications, surgeries and medical treatment? How would I pay for health insurance?

And what if you are in an area where you call out the police several times or your very poorly and require an ambulance several times?then your cash runs out fast. What happens then?

or are you capping call outs like the AA does sometimes depending on your level?

people will die on the street just like they did before we had welfare

we ended up with a welfare state as people realised the benefits to all. Even the rich

Where is this bank of money coming from even if you have a low paid job? carers, TA's etc.

Look up Marcus Licinius Crassus - or watch the Horrible Histories with him in (literally where I get my history knowledge... )

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants.

That and victims of crime, chronic and acute illness etc etc

Out of interest where does road/transport infrastructure and maintenance fit into your ridiculous, inhumane, unworkable idea?

Ditto bin collections, libraries, fire brigade etc etc

It would certainly be a big change given we have so many people now not working and supporting themselves. Thus why it would need to be implemented over a long time period.

The weakest in society - you mean the old for example would have been saving for their old age since the day they started work (paying no tax or ni of course). So by old age they have a large bank of money to pay for their own care.

A person who has a child born disabled (bearing in mind it was their own free choice to have children in the first place) would have large savings from paying no tax/ni and thus would pay for and look after their own child.

Can think who else would be vunerable - a middle aged man who loses his job. Same he has been saving all his tax and NI from day 1 and so he dips into this till he finds another job.

Is the concept of grown adults looking after themselves really so weird? Is that not what we actually should be expecting grown adults to do?

What a load of tosh. I stopped reading at:

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

Now is day 1 the day of birth? How does a baby afford to pay it's own way? Or is the day they turn 16 or 18 and leave whichever education they have somehow managed to finance for themselves? Ah well, they couldn't afford to educate themselves, but they can start self funding now. Oh wait, you need to have some skills or basic education to get a job? Which they couldn't afford as a baby so....there goes the work force. And the economy. Who needs educated people anyway.

I don't believe you.

What a ridiculous post. Stupid people to be deported.