To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

[LettingTheBadThingsGo]

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

ive been arguing parts of the ops op, like eduction can be free for all, and i used da vinci as case in point

Well you could always go and live somewhere like Dubai.
I'm not so selfish that I would want a country that doesn't support vulnerable children and adults. I'm not saying my taxes couldn't be better spent but I'm definitely happy to pay them rather than see children and disabled people on the streets and/or dying because they can't afford housing/health care/social care/food. Or lots more vulnerable women and children being raped and murdered because the perpetrators know that they and their families can't afford the police. Your idea basically legalises crimes against the poor.
Such a short sighted and selfish OP.

The Romans paid taxes, which funded roads, etc. We'd be going back even further than that.

So...... you want to be a victorian Op?

aztecs may be ?

Assuming I, a minimum wage retail worker, now get paid the same as the Prime Minister sign me up /s 🙄

“Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me”

you do realise that how hard someone works is in no way reflected by their salary? So those who slave away in manual jobs for minimum wage, in your world , deserve to not be able to pay for essential services?

tell me you are affluent, entitled, and able-bodied; without telling me you are affluent, entitled and able-bodied

from a full time working mum in a well paid job who is able bodied and thinks your world sounds hideously cruel

Yup.
And what if they become disabled on day 2.

No I dont think this would wotk. But I knew somebody who thinks all benefits should be cancelled and charities should take over This would save a huge amount of government money.

Well yes, we'd pretty much have to bung them in workhouses otherwise people like the OP, those who could afford to pay for everything for themselves, wouldn't be able to leave their palatial gated residences because of the mass of the dead and rotting bodies of the poor and dispossessed clogging up the streets.

From 'day one'? Babies start saving for disability/crime/illness?

Sounds awful. Not civilised. 👎

The number of children supported by baby banks is up 11% on last year
and charities are now saying they ‘cannot continue to absorb the impact of child poverty’ without government support.

It wouldn't be a civilised country then would it, and who the hell would want to live in a country where the haves get and the have nots die in the gutter??

When i see posts like this it makes me feel so sad. I couldn't believe what I read and the answers op kept giving. Not everyone is born equal in intellectual, in opportunity, in health. That disabled child born to the family who saved to have it, then gets older with disabilities, looses parental support through bereavement. Is it tough? Tough luck mate, your fault for being born disabled, your parents should provide.. oh they can't? Tough!

As a society, we gather together to help. That's why we have taxes and ni. But its equal in that we all have that support should we need it. As higher tax payers, we dont begrudge paying.

In fact, yes I would go buy someone a shop if they needed it. I will put into the food bank. Because I can. Because I am part of a society that supports each other. Without that infrastructure we are not a society but a war waiting to happen..

Op, I feel you are really defective in your thinking. I feel you have no empathy or emotional intelligence and really you are someone I would avoid with all my being. Sorry not sorry.

It's been reported in various publications - here's the Guardian's take on the story. If charities cannot cope with demand when we're being told the government are apparently handing out money like sweeties, we should be questioning the narrative and realising it's probably not actually the time to be cutting back on government support

I've read some stupid crap on mn but this takes the biscuit.

As pp said, I suspect it's been posted as rage bait.

See below…

Would you live in this system, OP, if you didn't presume your place in it?

This is called anarcho-capitalism. There's a reason no society has every really tried this as a political set up in reality.

Well fortunately it looks like you’d have saved a fortune via complete lack of education. This can’t be a serious post right? No one is that stupid…

OP, are you being deliberately obtuse just to wind people up, or are you actually a fucking idiot?

The thing is, you wouldn’t get the police for example within 5 minutes if you called a private service and were willing to pay. The private service called ‘police’ would be run entirely for profit. So if you were for example a Russian oligarch or similar, you could have them living in your property or gatehouse or something 24/7. But for an average person who is happily fit and employed and therefore has some income, you’d get a long pre-recorded message saying it’s much better if you use the app, where a chatbot would try to direct you to instructions on how to solve the crime or the situation yourself, and if you insisted on hanging on the phone through all the pre-recorded messages, music and menus to try to speak to someone, it would get through eventually to a call centre that has been outsourced to Manila or similar, who would read you a script to say that your call is very important and then give you a reference number. If you want an actual real-life example right now, think of the last time you used a paid-for breakdown service, or boiler cover, and how quickly they did or didn’t come in an emergency. They’re run for profit. They will have just about enough staff to sometimes see to some people; and if you’re uber wealthy you can basically pay for your own staff to be available always.

I think anyone that actively wants a system like you describe is a selfish, horrible person.

Except loads of charities receive cash from the government and more still have free or subsidised accommodations given by local authorities. It's a deeply flawed argument