To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

[LettingTheBadThingsGo]

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

Are we instigating a new MN Selfish Shit of the Year award? Because I think we have a winner.....

I love that libertarians are big on all this self funding personal responsibility to the point where society would clearly break down

But they always say ah but of course we'd have to pay tax to fund the military

Noone ever says "we should have a communal health fund from taxation but people should be able to pick and choose whether they fund the army" 🤔

Or go to India and see three generations of a family living literally on the street.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves

What if someone is born disabled?

I mean, so much more than that, but that's for starters.

Eventually the peasants would revolt and you'd have your head (at the very least) chopped off in public by the angry mob.
So ya know, silver linings. 😂

@LettingTheBadThingsGo I have a chronic incurable illness where I need multiple hospital admissions, surgeries, scans, medication. It limits my ability to hold down a stable job and receive a stable income.

How do you suggest I “live”?

In the words of the great Jane Austen - she did not think he deserved the compliment of rational opposition.

Interesting that you didn't have the guts to post this in AIBU with a poll, OP.

I'm honestly not willing to waste much time responding to your utter ignorance (especially as I have a hunch you won't have the guts to return to the thread either), but just to point out a few things:

1. Presumably you understand that for your little utopia to exist, there would need to be enough jobs to go round every working-age able-bodied adult? (which there isn't, btw)
2. And that those jobs would actually need to pay enough to live on AND save enough for retirement, medical care, redundancy and anything else that might crop up? (which many don't, btw)
3. 'Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled' - what about people who were born ill or disabled, or became so prior to 'day 1'? How are they supposed to survive let alone save?
4. And just so you know, many of 'those that live on the hard work of others' desperately wish they didn't have to. (Not me, currently, but I have been in that position in the past, and firmly believe most decent human beings do actually want to be self-supporting and pay their own way in society, especially given current levels of hate for the unemployed, the sick/disabled and those who are otherwise vulnerable.)

You sound very young and naive but it's a pity you weren't around in Thatcher's time, she'd have absolutely loved you.

(TLDR: grow up and get a clue.)

This is one of the stupidest posts I've read in a while

London Labour and the London Poor by Henry Mayhew is an eye opener.

If you want your streets to be slums and full of people begging for your money, sure.

Op. Grow. Teach yourself, much more. Travel. Ideally to a corrupt third world country and see how you feel. Really look into it. From all angles. Babies dying, mothers dying, rapes, murder, the have-nots taking with force from the haves, the stagnation due to gross power imbalance, the black market, the grey market.

Money doesn't discriminate either, it happens at all levels. If the dam of uncontrollable life events breaks, how will you block it with your one small handful of sand?

Also, realise that you, your kids, anyone can become disabled, and/or lose their jobs. The future you're proposing is corrupt, exclusionary, ill thought out, and would lead to such biases in education and global standing.

I actually hope you are here to troll. And that you don't have children.
And that you spiritually grow beyond the yoke of being under a capitalist illusion that you deserve better treatment than others because you can get approved for a credit card, or have more numbers stacking up in your account on a little screen.

If we don't have civilisation, compassionate respect and the ability to work together as social mammals, then just what do we have? An island of people, each one their own internal island? What you stand to lose would be magnitudes greater than any perceived benefits. Dystopia.

Do you want to go back to the days of the workhouse, @LettingTheBadThingsGo? Of people being unable to afford medical care, and dying as a result?

How many people are you willing to sacrifice for your selfish plan?

Not all of our parents and grandparents did manage that, actually.

My great grandparents emigrated here from Ireland because they were starving to death.

My grandma brought my mum and her siblings up on pretty much exclusively potatoes (ironically) because she could just buy bags of them to feed them for however long, and her husband had worked himself to a very early death.

I’m okay without returning to that, thank you.

What happens if your neighbour's house catches fire and they haven't paid for their fire brigade cover so your house also catches fire?

The thing is you probably don’t realise how much you personally actually benefit from other people not being poor and desperate because you have had the privilege of living in a society with a safety net.

Also who do you think is going to be your nurse if you get sick, or look after your children in nursery, or collect your bins or grow your food when these jobs currently don’t pay enough for someone to afford everything they need comfortably as is.

Poor and desperate people often turn to crime, antisocial behaviour. You can observe this in history and in other places in the world.

I can pay for myself.

The elderly who have worked minimum wage jobs their whole lives can't. Not their fault capitalism is shit.
The disabled can't. Not their fault their bodies (or minds in the case of mental health issues) aren't fully functioning.
The poorly educated can't. Not their fault education is shit.

Life happens. It isn't always fair. Those of us that are functioning and financially able now can have an emergency or health crisis that leaves us unable to pay for ourselves.

Where do we go to die so we don't traumatise others around us? Or should be just die and disintegrate in the streets?

Trump would love you. So would Farage.

I thought this was going to be about paying for dinner with friends

Wow. So you get robbed or raped and the police want a payment before coming out? Your house catches fire but sorry your credit is bad? You get in a car accident but nope no money no medical help? You develop cancer but whoa that’s expensive so bye bye? Yea private healthcare - that’s works so well in the United States.
And how is a ‘country charge’ any different than tax? Does everyone pay the same?
There’s a reason that the police, fire service, healthcare etc are available for all. It’s called humanity.

You either have exceptionally poor critical thinking skills or you’re a sociopath that wants to see the world burn.

I wish OP's parents had paid more for their education.

I don’t think the police one is OK. You cannot say to a child who got raped or a poor person who got beaten that they must pay to have their abuser arrested. Thats silly.

What you might need is a two tier system where YOU can pay private police but those who have no money can use the free service.

OP, have you ever watched A Christmas Carol? Is your favourite outcome the one where Tiny Tim dies? He's such a worthless drain on society, right?

Ok, so if someone needs specifically rare surgery and pays the hospital for the service and aftercare but the operation isn’t a success and they have to undergo yet further surgery because the surgeon fucked up the first time and the same happens the second time and another surgeon has a go at the operation and yet again fucks it up……….are you suggesting that the patient pays for THREE operations? This happended to me IRL……without the NHS and the intervention of a surgeon who knew what he was doing I’d be confined to a wheelchair!

Do get your head out of your arse OP, you’re talking bollocks!

Can I suggest you move to the USA or, even better that you time travel to the 19th Century. You could enjoy seeing people die in poverty or being thrown into the workhouse. You could delight in the people dying from preventable diseases and health conditions. Byeeeee!