Why is adhd not as "respected" as other ND conditions?

[elliejjtiny]

I'm wondering if it's because autism can mean anything from what used to be called Aspergers syndrome and profound autism with profound learning disabilities and people with adhd are more likely to either not have learning disabilities or have learning disabilities with a separate diagnosis.

But Nigel Farage has been in the news again saying he is going to get rid of PIP for people with mild anxiety and adhd as their primary diagnosis. I don't think anyone gets PIP for mild anxiety, I certainly don't anyway. But adhd can be extremely debilitating and require PIP.

I think because people, particularly those in work, can now see that their taxes can’t keep covering those on benefits. There just isn’t enough money.

As cost of living rises there are so many people struggling to keep above the poverty line but working 40-50 hours a week. These people see those claiming benefits still having foreign holidays and driving cars and it’s gets their backs up because they can no longer afford such luxuries.

Until 10-15 years ago there was a feeling that those in work were better off and afford nice things. Now they can’t afford them because too many people think they are entitled to government hand outs. Those in work feel like they are working for nothing.

Are there any actual clinicians here such as psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, or psychotherapists who could share their perspective?

I think it is misleading to treat ADHD or anxiety as automatically “mild” conditions. Support like PIP should be based on how much a condition affects daily functioning, not just the diagnosis label. Some people with ADHD face real difficulties with work, routines, communication, and independent living, so their needs should be judged fairly.

Of course not. Don’t be sensible, it’s just a bunch of MNers thinking they no better than the actual professionals.

care to name them? I’d be interested to know what their credentials are

And it is increasing.

Yes, this would be really helpful

@curiositykilledthecat0

1. Gabor Maté (medical doctor)
2. Probably the most prominent advocate of this view.
3. In Scattered Minds, he argues that ADHD develops through early childhood stress and disrupted attachment relationships rather than being purely inherited.
4. He describes ADHD symptoms as adaptations to developmental trauma and emotional disconnection.
5. Gordon Neufeld
6. Developed an attachment-based model of child development.
7. Has proposed that many attention problems arise from attachment disturbances, separation stress, and emotional alarm systems.

• Gordon Neufeld PhD in developmental and clinical psychology.

1. Developed an attachment-based model of child development.
2. Has proposed that many attention problems arise from attachment disturbances, separation stress, and emotional alarm systems.
3. His work heavily emphasizes attachment as foundational to attention and emotional regulation.

1. Daniel Hughes (clinical psychologist)
2. Known for Dyadic Developmental Psychotherapy.
3. Has written extensively about developmental trauma, attachment disruption, and behavioural symptoms that can resemble ADHD.
4. More likely to view attention difficulties through a trauma-and-attachment lens than a strictly biological one.

Mary Jo Peebles

• Clinical psychologist who developed an attachment-based approach to ADHD.
• Has written extensively about the relationship between attachment insecurity and ADHD symptoms.
• Argues that some ADHD presentations are best understood through developmental and relational experiences.

I mean I could go on and on… there’s loads. Perhaps their views are also offensive and hilarious (two things I’ve been called on this thread for similar opinions to the above).

Bruce D. Perry

• psychiatrist and trauma researcher.
• Known for the Neurosequential Model.
• Argues that early developmental trauma can alter attention, impulse control, and emotional regulation in ways that can resemble ADHD.
• Often cited by trauma-informed ADHD clinicians.

From a Gabor Maté-style perspective, the root cause of ADHD is not primarily genetics or a brain disorder. Instead, he argues it originates in early developmental stress that disrupts attachment and emotional attunement between a child and their caregivers.
According to Maté:

1. The infant experiences chronic stress
2. This can come from obvious trauma (abuse, neglect, violence).
3. But it can also come from subtler experiences such as parental depression, emotional unavailability, chronic family tension, loss, or a caregiver being overwhelmed.
4. Attachment and authenticity come into conflict
5. Children need attachment for survival.
6. If expressing their true feelings threatens attachment, they suppress emotions to preserve the relationship.
7. Stress affects brain development
8. Maté focuses particularly on the development of circuits involved in:
9. attention,
10. impulse control,
11. emotional regulation,
12. executive functioning.
13. He argues chronic stress hormones during development can impair the maturation of these systems.
14. The child develops ADHD symptoms as an adaptation
15. Distractibility becomes a way of tuning out overwhelming emotions.
16. Hyperactivity becomes a response to internal stress.
17. Difficulty with focus reflects developmental disruption rather than an inherited disorder.

In his view, ADHD is fundamentally a developmental adaptation to stress occurring within attachment relationships

I work with vulnerable children and families and we have a huge percentage of service users, child and adult with ND and of course they all have trauma/abuse/ACEs within their backgrfounds

ND isnt 'caused' by those things, but we know that severe and chronic neglect shapes the way the brain develops and can present with challenging behaviour which shares traits with ND conditions. Over/under simulation, fear, panic, anxiety, lack of structure and routine, no socialisation. Some children are literally feral. Parents will often say their children are on the pathway for assessment or already diagnosed. Sometimes we have evidence of the diagnosis and sometimes not

However for some of them, not all of them, when cared for in a different environment, their behaviour changes. Even children who very clearly have a correct diagnosis, with the right nurture, care, routines, socialisation, boundaries and disicipline, their behaviour improves.

Well more accurate to say that behaviour traits in us humans in modern western society which we call ND traits are increasing

Ive said on many a thread, and many have mentioned it here, that the modern fast paced, solitary, technologically based world which is overstimulating is inhuman. We cant cope. Human bodies and brains are not designed for what we have created for ourselves.

I think it’s a combination of lots of things really but your posts come across as if you don’t believe ADHD exists. For every doctor who thinks like you there will be another who thinks differently.

I have skin in the game tbf, both my DC have a diagnosis of autism though their early life didn’t involve any trauma or attachment issues that were noted. Medication has helped them tenfold. We see a fantastic consultant who I have every faith in.

how one doctor can say ADHD is entirely caused by trauma is madness. One man’s opinion doesn’t change the years and years of research behind it and it seems his ideas are debated quite a lot in the medical field. Not sure what makes him correct and everyone else wrong?

Nothing is ever entirely genetic or entirely environmental. You can have a genetic predisposition to a condition but it requires exposure to a permissive environment for the phenotype to be manifest.

I’m a psychiatrist BTW. I do ‘believe’ in ADHD but I also know for sure that there is a huge industry around private diagnosis at the moment. I could make loadsa cash if I went on an online course and plenty of colleagues have done without any particular prior interest in ADHD until it got lucrative.

No one would outright diagnose someone who patently didn’t have it but if you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail and patients are well rehearsed with their evidence having looked it all up online. If they say the right stuff then they get the diagnosis there isn’t a scan or a blood test for it. I could get someone to diagnose me without lying at all I’d just know what to emphasise.

Its nuanced
ADHD exists. In some sectors it’s underdiagnosed. And yet private clinics are also over diagnosing it in my opinion. That’s why GPs stopped sharing care with private providers
It’s a spectrum disorder like ASD or indeed hypertension. Where the diagnostic threshold is determines how many people are diagnosed and it used to be higher than it is now. Traits like hyperactivity and inattention are normally distributed in the population but we put a cut off on and say the top x percent is pathological. If we want to move it back to top 10% from top 5% more people will get diagnosed.
Anyone who says that ASD or ADHD is like pregnancy a state discontinuous with normality I profoundly disagree with. I just don’t think that’s true

Thank you that’s interesting! I definitely think it’s a combination of things both genetic and environmental like you say and that some lifestyle factors can exacerbate symptoms.

My children did a QbTest which I thought was helpful as it wasn’t something you could “cheat” at. I mean maybe an adult could but children not so much.

We also had to have information from various people, /settings, it wasn’t simply Mum/Dad said which I feel was important.

I don’t think social media has helped. ADHD isn’t just being a bit forgetful and the impact it can have on one’s life is somewhat underestimated and people don’t tend to really care anymore due to people saying “everyone’s a little adhd” they aren’t.

@curiositykilledthecat0

Interesting how you only noted “one doctor” when I gave you other examples. Contrary to popular belief, the days where psychiatrists sat at the top of the diagnostic hierarchy appear to be over. Depending on what lens you resonate with I personally think clinical psychologists have more “skin in the game”. This thread is also specifically about ADHD and why it’s not always respected as a diagnosis. Reasons being, there are so many ADHD like presentations due to many lifestyle and environmental factors.

It is the nature/nurture debate, but I highly doubt it’s all nature like many people on this thread have suggested. If that makes me hilarious, ironic or offensive then okay then. My actual view really isn’t very controversial.

Apologies @BurnoutBeeI was in a rush and just looked at the first doc I saw you mention

Yeah that's not how people mean it though.

Quoted wrong post

It really doesn't put anything to rest because that's not what the D in ADHD or ASD stands for is it? But no worries, you carry on using your ridiculous phrases if it makes you feel better 😂

@Shrinkhole Can you cheat a QbTest?
@BurnoutBee Gabor Mate thinks everything is trauma, including asthma. His work is interesting, but not entirely helpful in the here and now

At some point aren't you supposed to be responsible for your own life and deal with your own problems?

Are you asserting that it doesn’t stand for disorder?

I’m very interested to hear what you think the D stands for, if not disorder.

It doesn't stand for disordered.