Thoughts on this conversation

[HomeForTheAnimals]

We went to a party for our friends parents at the weekend, had a lovely time, lots of people we knew were there and others who we hadn’t met before.

I got chatting to 3 women and did the usual polite conversation and asking how they knew the hosting couple. The conversation moved on to work and what each of us did. Two worked, one was a SAHM with young children and I told them what my job was before I had children but that I hadn’t gone back to work.

One asked how old my children were, I told them. (20, 17 and 15). She said ‘so you must be going to go back to work soon the after all that time off’ which I found a bit passive aggressive, but just said that I wasn’t going to return to work as I liked being home and didn’t need to go back.

One of the other women changed the subject to talk about a song that was playing but the other woman continued to talk to me. She said ‘so what do you actually do all day?’ I said I take my middle and youngest kids to and from school but other than that, my time is mostly my own.

I said something about the food coming out soon to try to change the subject again, one of the other women said she was hungry so she hoped so, but the woman continued with, ‘what do you do between picking up your children? I said anything I fancy and listed a few things like going running, looking after our animals (we have our own and we foster dogs), cooking, gardening, seeing friends etc.

She asked ‘so do you class yourself as a SAHM then?’ I said I didn’t really think about it, I suppose so, but that my husband jokes I’m just retired. The other 2 women laughed, one said she wished she was retired but had 20 years work left yet.

The other woman continued talking to me saying ‘I don’t really think you can class yourself as a SAHM when your children are teenagers, by that point you just don’t work’. 😬😅

The other 2 looked shocked and I was getting a bit fed up of her questioning and said I wasn’t aware there was a cut off age, but I don’t really feel strongly about how I’m categorised and being classed as not working is fine by me. The other women laughed. The woman still continued saying something about how she feels it’s important to have a more in your life than children, which I did find quite rude. I said that it’s a good job I have lots of other things in my life then, made my excuses and went to find my husband.

One of the other women found me later on with my husband and said that the other woman was a very full on and we had a laugh at the awkwardness of the conversation.

Would you have found the questioning as strange as we did? It didn’t feel like nice chatty conversation like you have at parties. What would you have said? Do people really care if others don’t return to work? Would you actually question someone as much as this? I felt like I needed a lie down afterwards. 😂

Well, guessing that she lives rurally judging by the various animals they shelter. Doubt they have that in a flat in Mayfair...

The correct term is economically inactive.

I've always disliked that term though. It implies all human beings contribute is money.

I don’t like “economically inactive” either. Like… you’re still buying stuff, paying VAT, and paying tax on savings interest. People are just weirdly obsessed with the idea that people have to have a job, even if you don’t need the income and are perfectly happy without one.

I would agree with this, it was maybe the term SAHM that got her, considering your children are older I wouldn’t really class you as that either. I HATE the term housewife though!! It’s so old fashioned. You should have just said ‘oh I left work a while ago it’s great’!!

People can be so horrible, I think they are jealous as they don’t want to work until retirement age. I had these kind of comments when I had 10 years being a sahp. I loved it and would have always stayed at home but my finances changed.

This is well said. I also don't have a job, don't need the income, and am perfectly happy without one. The idea that someone has to "justify their existence" with paid work is wild to me. Taking care of my family and our home gives me more joy and fulfilment than anything else I could imagine. I know I am fortunate not to have to work, but would never make an issue of how fortunate I am unless someone starts haranguing me about why I don't have a job. I think this is a British thing. There is a culture of conformity here and not liking outliers. When I lived in America, there was much more of a culture of individualism and everyone having different kinds of lives and respecting that. The idea of the American dream also makes people feel they can aspire to that rather than just be jealous of others who have it.

I'd also be thinking what the woman was thinking, but I might have been intrigued about what someone like you @HomeForTheAnimals actually does all day - because I think all able-bodied people should be doing some sort of meaningful work. And I don't count pandering to a man's career as "meaningful work."

I'd also be thinking that it's all very well, but if your husband trades you in for a younger model, you're stuffed.

And I'd also be mildly irritated that my taxes will pay your pension, even though you contribute very little now. OK to be a SAHM when DC are little, but not OK now, frankly.

But you know, each to her own. If you like being a kept woman, I hope you enjoy yourself! Do you do any volunteer work?

She was rude.

She makes her garden and fosters animals. Sounds like a job to me. Anyway, if you don't need to work what is the pressure to do so? This is what most women used to do - i.e. make a home - up until about 5 minutes ago and was what I wanted to do so I could actually do the work I needed to do, i.e. write. I had to go out to work instead and I will never know whether I might have earned a living writing...

I think the point is the woman should have taken OP’s lead on that as it wasn’t an open discussion - she was grilling OP. She must have picked up on the fact it made her uncomfortable, as well as the women in that group - nervous laughter, subject changes - but she pursued it like a dog with a bone. Her need to find out exactly why this complete stranger chose to live the way she does/ need to publicly humiliate her as punishment for not working - was more important than everyone else’s comfort.

edited to add - why did she assume she had a right to that information in the first place?

I think you handled it really well. You don't need to defend or explain your choices to anyone. The woman sounded quite desperate.

She was clearly Lacking social skills, to hound you at a party! Tbh she sounds a bit obvious, a bit unimaginative, small minded and rude!

You are super fortunate financially, clearly very resourceful and content. Clearly she’s not come across anyone like you before!
a window into the world of the socially boorish, for you, and a window into the world of a person not easily defined, for her.

OP is independently wealthy.
She also looks after animals she fosters.
Your lack of reading ability has made you look rather silly now.

She was rude.

'I don't work because I don't need to and I'm much happier being at home, managing our rescue horses and that kind of thing' is what I would have said to her.

And if she said 'I don't think you can call that being a SAHM' I'd have said 'You can call it whatever you like. I don't call it anything.'

She makes her garden and fosters animals. Sounds like a job to me.

Most people fit that sort of stuff in around working, often quite long hours. It's hardly a "job" - more like hobbies - unless the OP is growing enough food and raising enough animals to feed her family.

And as for working & writing - well, again, a lot of writers work for money to live on at something that is not their writing. Stella Duffy's blogs on writing are great:

https://stelladuffy.blog/2012/04/24/the-how-to-write-a-book-thing-again/

Never can get my head round how some women are just purely jealous of other women.

Your situation is unusual and she is trying to make conversation. If you names a job she likely would have asked some follow up questions too.

I'd have just said I volunteered and fostered animals. Yes she was rude to go on and on but I don't know anyone who calls themselves a sahp when they have adult and secondary school aged kids.

As an aside we do see a lot of threads on relationships from women financially reliant on their dh and if cheating/separating crops up find themselves stuck so do make sure you've some financial independence just in case.

I’m I a very fortunate financial position (large inheritance) and have chosen to only work in a seasonal job a few weeks per year. I don’t like the idea of having to overshare or people being too nosy, so I do lie about my job. I just make it out to be ‘flexible hours’ with a lot of ‘work from home’, I’m even vague about the employer because it’s a business that has several bases and work from home roles. So long as no-one in my immediate circle works for the company and can get access to the employees list…I easily get away with it. If I ever got a problem, I’d conveniently invent another ‘work from home’ job.

It’s just much easier to do that, than fend off the ‘what do you do all day’ or ‘how are you paying your bills’ questions. I’ve got a very easy life and have no intention of changing that just becuase it’s a society expectation to go to work 5 days a week until you either drop dead or turn 68.

I honestly don’t achieve much during the hours I would work, mostly reading, going for a walk, gardening, cinema and a bit of creative art like painting. If I ever feel bored, I just remind my self of how stressed and miserable I was when I did 5 days a week in an office, at the beck and call of managers who expected to be treated like gods, and how whenever to took annual leave I couldn’t enjoy it due to the worry of going back to work. I did over 20 years in a constant state of stress, and wouldn’t go back to it, unless I needed the money.

I guess it’s different if you actually had a job you really enjoyed, or struggle with boredom at home. I think never having been on a career path probably made it worse for me, I was in a situation where I had a low qualification level and graduates would join and be promoted above me constantly (even though I would be training and helping them) so it was always a bit demoralising.

As for the conversation, it was RUDE, none her business to probe how you spend your day. If she wanted to get to know you better she could have asked if you have hobbies in common with her or if you have seen the latest tv series etc, there’s no need to harass someone about their personal choices. This is the exact reason I avoid telling family/friends how much free time I have, as some people genuinely think that everyone needs to be at work full time unless they have a small child at home etc, many people believe this to be true, even if the individual has no financial need to be at work…they want others to suffer just because they have to!

She was probably jealous and being spiteful about it.!

I don’t think she was rude (but I obviously didn’t hear her tone). I think she was asking questions that others usually think about but don’t dare ask. I’m fairly happy and confident to ask awkward/difficult questions but I hope I’m coming across as curious rather than rude (but who knows!). Some people think it’s rude to ask about the cost of something, where as I don’t at all. I think also if you work and can fit everything around your life, you’re fairly curious as to how you’re spending your time.

Some depressing responses on this thread from women like the one at the party.

Mumsnet shows that the patriarchy is alive and well and being perpetuated by many women themselves. Bickering over how to define the OP: “You’re not a SAHM, you’re a housewife.” As if the OP can only be defined by how she relates to her children or her husband.

OP, I’m like you although I do work maybe 1-2 days a week (and many weeks nothing at all) because I have a passion profession. A bit like you with your animals, but paid. I don’t need to do it but I love it and extra money does no harm. I work whenever I please and I'm about to clear my calendar for the next 3 months because I don’t want to take any work on over the summer. I’m not a SAHM or a housewife, I’m a woman who does what she wants to do.

Life is hard for so many and often people are bitter about their lot in life and the daily grind. It hurts to hear about someone filling their days however they please.

I’m a happy idler. My days are filled with whatever I want to do and on my own time. It’s the dream. You should (and I’m sure you are) be proud of the children you’ve raised, and the worthwhile work that you do. The value of life isn’t measured in paid work.

It’s rude when everyone around you is clearly trying to drop it and the person just carries on regardless. We all know that kind of person who cannot read the room and just blathers on with their own agenda.

I use similar tactics to @TygerBread .
I generally try to work out how to steer the conversation into something people can get hold of. It makes them more interesting and I might learn something new.
I have had to listen to an awful lot of moaning, stress or sadness about people's working lives and experienced the sudden switch of being told why I should work a standard environment & hours job.
Sometimes I do project work which is intense and crazy and date embargoed so over the years I've had to play that down to a significant number of people for different reasons. It's better they think I'm lazy rather than living my best crazy life doing stuff beyond their dreams. There's a lot of people who further down the line just want to enjoy your fall from employment heights when the projects don't come in.

interrogating

My SIL was in the fortunate position of neither needing nor wanting to work, and is now technically of retirement age, although she's had nothing to retire from.

If asked, she told people she was a Domestic Goddess. 😁