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Labour isn't Working - Thread 34

1000 replies

Nuthatch26 · 04/06/2026 13:53

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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Labour isn't Working - Thread 34
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68
Albertroad · 13/06/2026 22:01

Pacificsunshine · 13/06/2026 21:55

Okay! Here’s the deal with “social value.”

Every public authority (central government, local authorities, public charities, such as museums) has to run a public tender for any contract for goods or services above £214k, and any works (construction) above £5.31M. This threshold changes every year to stay in alignment with the EU.

These tenders are highly regulated, and must follow all the rules and regulations of the Procurement Act of 2023. If a local authority screws up the process or makes a mistake, they can be sued by the suppliers. Some large construction companies actually have teams of people to bid on tenders their firm doesn’t even want, so that they will have standing to challenge the procurement and hopefully get a payoff. Easy money.

Basically, the procurement regulations considered every “stakeholder”, except of course the tax payer.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/54/contents

In addition to the act, the government sets out a National Procurement Policy that creates further requirements for authorities to have due regard to this and that.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/67ab332fd41dfb0b59cec46a/E03274856_National_Procurement_Policy_Statement_Accessible.pdf

I think I am building up the picture here that whenever a procurement person buys something in the public sector, value for money will be low in the list. They will be panicking over a range of competing requirements and trying not to get their employer sued.

In this delightful melange of competing requirements comes social value. This is where any tender must weight social value at 10%.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ppn-002-taking-account-of-social-value-in-the-award-of-contracts/ppn-002-guide-to-using-the-social-value-model-html

Fulfilling the social value element of tenders is so burdensome, a cottage industry as sprung up offering advice and consultation to help authorities manage.

So what happens in practice? Tenders are set up with criteria and weightings that say: social value is 10% of a bidder’s score, and price 40%, and sustainability 10%, etc.

Bidders might be bidding to keep the lawns mown, or provide catering, or repair facilities etc. Thrown in with all the questions relevant to the service actually being bid on will be what can you do to benefit the community if you win the contract? This is where bidders come up with a range of offers, sometimes completely unrelated to the contract. They might offer apprenticeships, a donation, or other freebies.

The problems with this are:
-10% is enough to swing the scoring away from the best supplier for the relevant service
-the authority pays for this in the end, the bidders just build it into their costs
-the subject matter experts evaluating the bid are experts on the relevant service, not on whatever social value inducement is being offered

In short, it’s an inefficient way to increase social value. Much better to let an authority buy what it actually needs in an efficient, straightforward manner. The money saved by doing this could then be spent by people who know what they are doing who have a joined up plan.

I personally know of people who built up profitable firms by gaming social value.

So….that’s my TED talk!

Thats Interesting. I confess I work in the public sector...I metaphorically sigh and roll my eyes at work a lot

SapphireCasino · 13/06/2026 22:14

@Pacificsunshine "If a local authority screws up the process or makes a mistake, they can be sued by the suppliers"

when you say supplier, who do you mean? It sounds as if you're saying anyone who bid could sue.

Also with regards to social value, to clarify

Let's say somebody gets the contract to supply catering for the local authority

Instead of just bidding for catering, they've got demonstrate some kind of social value thing?

You also mentioned keeping the threshold in line with the EU. Why do we have to do that now that we're not in the EU? And why would they have had any influence over our procurement processes anyway?

I have long been aware that public sector procurement is a disaster but I can't understand why. I've always assumed because it's just layers and layers of people are allowed to make money out of it. Because taxpayer money is almost seen is not real - they feel they can just keep asking for more.

this is controversial, but I do actually think the public sector should be allowed to award things to the bid that they think is right. And yeah, that might turn out to be the head of the council neighbour/ boyfriend/ cousin but as long as they actually delivered the most competitive pricing and that was also the best fit for the job - I don't see why it's a problem.

I know Reform councils were criticised for giving contract for resurfacing roads and so on to - was it JCB? I think the criticism is that they just handed it over because JCB apparently have the best machine in terms of resurfacing roads

I can't for the life of me see why that's a problem

just as I'm fine with the NHS getting their stationery from Amazon if it turned out to be the best option in terms of value.

Pacificsunshine · 13/06/2026 22:27

when you say supplier, who do you mean? It sounds as if you're saying anyone who bid could sue.

Yes, exactly so. Any bidder can challenge the tender and take the authority to court. Expensive, and disruptive even if the authority is ultimately found to be impeccable.

Instead of just bidding for catering, they've got demonstrate some kind of social value thing?

Precisely.

You also mentioned keeping the threshold in line with the EU. Why do we have to do that now that we're not in the EU?

I don’t know the ins and outs of that one, but I believe it has to do with our Brexit deal.

Yes, public procurement is a mess. It’s hard enough to keep probity on public procurement without saddling it with a bunch of side issues and pet projects. I reckon there is the potential to save a LOT, if we get serious and cut the foolishness and pandering.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

justasking111 · 13/06/2026 22:30

At work we dealt with British Gas. They set up a procurement system. We were sent a form many pages long to complete. After a couple of pages it started to become very intrusive from a business and personal point of view. I paused and pulled up their account on the computer going back two years and their average monthly spend. It was £14 pcm.

I binned the form.

Nuthatch26 · 14/06/2026 09:03

Good morning 😁
We finally have some sunshine here. Will be making the most of it.

Just seen political giant Lisa Nandy on Sky. She doesn't know if Dan Jarvis has been offered more money apparently. She also took the opportunity to big up Andy Burnham!

OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 14/06/2026 09:37

It bothers me that people like Nandy are supporting Burnham, as it makes me think that anything sensible he says about the economy (agreeing that Reeves' employers' NI was a bad move, for instance) is a lie to get elected.

No sun here yet. It's dry though, so that's something. We're off to Martin Mere shortly, as we've not been in ages.

Nuthatch26 · 14/06/2026 10:07

NoWordForFluffy · 14/06/2026 09:37

It bothers me that people like Nandy are supporting Burnham, as it makes me think that anything sensible he says about the economy (agreeing that Reeves' employers' NI was a bad move, for instance) is a lie to get elected.

No sun here yet. It's dry though, so that's something. We're off to Martin Mere shortly, as we've not been in ages.

Yep, King flip-flop. Thats his MO.

Hope the sunshine heads your way soon. Got.my washing out for the first time in weeks. Love Martin mere its gorgeous. We're off to Dunham Massey once once I've peeled DD out of bed. 😂

OP posts:
DancingFerret · 14/06/2026 10:39

Nuthatch26 · 14/06/2026 10:07

Yep, King flip-flop. Thats his MO.

Hope the sunshine heads your way soon. Got.my washing out for the first time in weeks. Love Martin mere its gorgeous. We're off to Dunham Massey once once I've peeled DD out of bed. 😂

Lovely weather down here. I'm resurfacing, blinking in the sunlight, after two hedonistic days in quick succession (Winchester Beer Festival followed by the annual get-together of our boat owners' club yesterday) and not a lot seems to have changed on the political landscape. It's a waiting game now, it seems, until Makerfield when it will all kick off again, one way or the other.

I almost long for the (what seems to be have been) halcyon days when people would be up in arms about a 1p on the price of beer and 5p on tobacco, or whatever. These days there are far darker concerns, not least our national security, and taxpayers funding the lifestyle of those who could work but have been handed a get out of jail free card by this awful government.

Martin Mere was on my radar, but I had to Google Dunham Massey. Have a lovely day.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/06/2026 10:41

I have a strong feeling that Burnham will quickly turn out to be a useless, hollow PM.

His mayoral record tells us nothing about his politics or his person. Mayors have little or no influence on lives. But his chasing votes by just saying what suits him at the time does give us an insight. If you actually believe in a policy or action you will upset some people along the way and you have to tackle and face-down the objections.

Not Burnham’s way, apparently.

NoWordForFluffy · 14/06/2026 11:12

Nuthatch26 · 14/06/2026 10:07

Yep, King flip-flop. Thats his MO.

Hope the sunshine heads your way soon. Got.my washing out for the first time in weeks. Love Martin mere its gorgeous. We're off to Dunham Massey once once I've peeled DD out of bed. 😂

It's trying to be sunny! But it's pleasant anyway. So many cute baby birds to look at too (including flamingos 🦩)! 😍

Dunham Massey is gorgeous. Are you taking the doggos?

Middlerage · 14/06/2026 12:45

A Beyoncé song? The self awareness she has is nill isn’t it.

EasternStandard · 14/06/2026 12:46

Starmer and Reeves are just winding people up at this point. Luckily their own party agrees and he’ll be out at least.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/06/2026 12:49

Middlerage · 14/06/2026 12:45

A Beyoncé song? The self awareness she has is nill isn’t it.

I’d have thought the Beatles’ I’m a Loser would be the one for Reeves and the economy under her.

AlternativeView · 14/06/2026 12:49

@Pacificsunshine agree re really getting serious about cutting costs I couldn't believe in hospital i saw Weetabix brand wheat biscuits (new use any non branded ) and i got a plate of what looked like meat valves for dinner

A friend who worked NHS and private said you would grab a couple of pens from NHS stationary in private every single penis accounted for.

Also you need to have good research skills to find the best deals! I see it at work where people don't and even in their private lives !

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/06/2026 12:51

AlternativeView · 14/06/2026 12:49

@Pacificsunshine agree re really getting serious about cutting costs I couldn't believe in hospital i saw Weetabix brand wheat biscuits (new use any non branded ) and i got a plate of what looked like meat valves for dinner

A friend who worked NHS and private said you would grab a couple of pens from NHS stationary in private every single penis accounted for.

Also you need to have good research skills to find the best deals! I see it at work where people don't and even in their private lives !

Fantastic typo!

Middlerage · 14/06/2026 12:51

If the rumours of Miliband being AB’s chancellor are true then the honeymoon for the new regime will be non existent, surely AB has better sense than that….

AlternativeView · 14/06/2026 12:52

DancingFerret · 14/06/2026 12:03

Reeves on her performance as Chancellor.

I can't wait to see the back of this delusional and vainglorious woman.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/797f0c1c54d54545

Im with Steph Morgan the retired police officer the UK was seeing green shoots and they stamped those out with their Jack boots

Can a new gov stop all these hair brain schemes ?reverse them?

AlternativeView · 14/06/2026 12:52

Middlerage · 14/06/2026 12:51

If the rumours of Miliband being AB’s chancellor are true then the honeymoon for the new regime will be non existent, surely AB has better sense than that….

None of them can read the room ,none of them care about us only their mad religion.

DancingFerret · 14/06/2026 13:22

Middlerage · 14/06/2026 12:51

If the rumours of Miliband being AB’s chancellor are true then the honeymoon for the new regime will be non existent, surely AB has better sense than that….

I very much doubt it. Altruism is thin on the ground in politics, I believe, but I think the current shower are in it for personal glory and self-enrichment; their weasel words mean nothing. When their ideological work is done or halted, they'll wander off into the sunset to enjoy their fat pensions without a backward glance.

AB is no different, IMO.

Middlerage · 14/06/2026 13:46

fat pensions, book deals, podcasts, a life of literary festivals and nice payments for doing talks, trotting out the same old lines about all of the reasons they were effective and the system was broken/it was Musk etc...

justasking111 · 14/06/2026 14:00

Mcsweeny is back I heard this morning. That's so blooming funny 😂 😂

CaveMum · 14/06/2026 15:09

Al Carns was good on LK this morning, but sadly he’s probably too sensible to get within sniffing distance of the Labour leadership.

NoWordForFluffy · 14/06/2026 15:29

justasking111 · 14/06/2026 14:00

Mcsweeny is back I heard this morning. That's so blooming funny 😂 😂

WTAF?!

🙈🤣

DancingFerret · 14/06/2026 16:04

According to SM, McS never really went away, he was on the end of a phone providing 24/7 support for the malignant and woefully inadequate Starmer.

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