Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

It's been in the news today that someone who knew him said he was a bare faced liar and kept getting away with stuff and it didn't suprise him what he has done.

Is it actually legal to carry a ceremonial knife under the guise of religion in the UK?
It should be that's illegal to carry a knife no matter what.
I can't stop thinking about Henry and his family. Even if the police had listened to him, it seems that he wouldn't have been saved but just to have made him more comfortable and treated him with compassion in his final minutes would've have been something. Common sense seemed to have evaded the police that day, except for the police woman who could be heard saying that they still needed to check for injuries. Rest In Peace Henry ❤️

Bloody well said.

The family are at fault.
The police were incompetent.
Sihks are innocent. One horrible family does not define a whole community.

I have decided that after Wayne Couzens, Jordan Sweeney and Kyle Clifford, I am done with men. The police just don't care about women at all. Their horrific rapes have put paid to the notion that men are a law abiding community. Their crimes will reflect badly on other men, but that's for them to navigate.

I am done.

And...where is your source? Your comments made you sound exactly as you described.

No group of people should be allowed to carry knives because of their religion. Hope there will be some action to ban this (but doubt it). If people wish to continue their traditions which go against the law of the country they are living in, perhaps they should leave.

Does anyone know why this attack happened in such close proximity to the murder's family? Why were they all present at the time, was it outside his house or something? I honestly don't get it .does anyone have a link to a reputable breakdown of the events? I'm not interested in watching the gruesome footage as I know it would make me feel sick.

Henry Novak was murdered by Vickrum Digwa, not by Sikhs. Collective blame is wrong. The evidence showed that Digwa lied about a racist attack, was convicted of murder, and his mother was convicted of assisting an offender after concealing the weapon. Individuals should be judged for their own actions, not by their religion.

I agree with this. It’s shocking that carrying these weapons is legal in the UK - I didn't even know that it was until this situation.

@Portakalkediyoudo realise Sikhs have been in Britain for well over a century and have served in the British armed forces, NHS, business and public life, right?

If you want to argue that all knives, including kirpans, should be treated the same under the law, that's a legitimate policy position. But "if people want to continue their traditions, perhaps they should leave" isn't a policy argument- it's just telling a religious minority they don't belong here.

One murderer committed a horrific crime. Hold him accountable. Hold anyone who helped him accountable. But using that crime to attack an entire community of law-abiding people is exactly the kind of collective blame most of us reject when it's aimed at any other group.

The law applies to everyone. So should basic fairness.

All BAME - not just Sikh. I have BAME fatigue. I am tired of the race card being played. I am tired of the authorities dampening down any dissent. I am tired of the country becoming lawless. I am tired of the cocky BAME youth who know they are untouchable. I am tired of Starmer. I am tired of the apologists. I am tired of all the accommodations that go on to protect BAME people when they behave badly. I am tired that this welcoming country (and we were once) has now had that thrown in our faces.

And I didn’t give up on white people because of Wayne Cozens, I gave up on believing the police were a force for good. I have given up voting too. I didn’t vote last time, and I won’t vote for Reform as they don’t have the answers either. Nobody does, it is unfixable. But I am just so done. I won’t do anything with that “done” other than switch off completely and not want to know if someone says there is racism. I no longer care.

Wtaf

@Fixydodahwhat you've written is less a criticism of bad behaviour and more a grievance against millions of people you've never met.

There are BAME doctors, soldiers, teachers, police officers, business owners, victims of crime and people who are just getting on with their lives. Lumping them all together as a problem is no different from the stereotyping you're objecting to.

If you're angry about crime, corruption, failures in policing or political decisions, then direct that anger where it belongs: at criminals, institutions and policymakers. Not at entire ethnic groups.

You say you're tired of the "race card", but you've just reduced people of dozens of different backgrounds to a single category and attributed the country's problems to them. That's not analysis; it's prejudice.

The moment we start judging millions of people by the actions of the worst among them, we're no longer talking about justice or accountability. We're talking about scapegoating.

I know you are being facetious but actually I am done with men too. Violent, egotistical, childish, warmongering thugs.

Starmer has come out today to say he supports the legislation that allows it as an exemption and will not remove it.

So yes, that is 2 tier policing.

2 men. Same weapon. Same unknown intention. One is sikh. One is Christian. One gets arrested. One isnt approached.

That is not equality.

No man is above the law. No religion is above the law.

It's happened once. It can happen again.

Nobody should be allowed to carry a weapon in public.

This is the killer at work. Look at that knife. How could his co workers feel safe? They weren't safe, the guy is a nutcase and killed someone. They were just lucky it wasn't them.

How can this be justified?

And to anyone says 'well this is the first time its happened' well Dunblane was the first mass shooting we had and that triggered a gun ban so it can be done!

With the way knife crime is in recent times anything that can be done to reduce it should be, and yes that includes carrying knives for religious purposes. If it wasn't so serious it would be comical - a large knife being carried around in public?! C'mon let's have some common sense, it's ridiculous

Yes I do realise that. I'm saying that if the law here says you cannot carry a knife then there should not be exceptions for some. The concept of tolerance can go too far.

I shall be carrying my Viking two headed axe in future, as I have Viking heritage.

You didn’t know, because there has never been an incident. Sikh’s carrying these knives adds zero data to knife crime.

This man would have carried anyway. He was obsessed with weapons, it was known that he was, the police previously knew he had stolen weapons… nothing was ever done. He was able to commit this crime because knife crime legislation didn’t act to stop him when he was a known weapon obsessed, aggressive man and police did nothing.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Sikhs being able to carry a ceremonial knife. You don’t know about that because it has never been an issue.

Just watched Kemi’s comments on this horrendous crime, and I felt she was absolutely right. What has happened should not be used to create further division. It is not about BLM or WLM, as Farage suggests, it is about the value of every human life. We should all be judged equally.

As Henry’s father so eloquently said, “This is not about race; it’s about murder.”

There are, however, legitimate questions that need to be answered about the police response. I watched part of the video, and it was heartbreaking. I could not bring myself to watch it to the end. The officers’ handling of the situation appeared grossly incompetent, inadequate, and deeply troubling.

I hope the investigation provides clear answers as to why this happened and, more importantly, that any lessons identified are genuinely acted upon rather than simply acknowledged and forgotten, as seems to happen far too often.

It doesn't really matter what community the murderer was from. That part is irrelevant. What matters is that racism has now become so rife in this country that he tried to use it to his advantage.

Not excusing the police, their actions are inexcusable here, but I do wonder if the tone of the nation were different whether this would have panned out the same way. If racism wasn't on the rise like it is, would they have made the same assumptions? If racism wasn't such a problem would they have approached this situation with more of an open mind? Listened to Henry? Checked him properly?

The thing I can't get my head around is how on earth did Digwa think he would get away with it once they discovered the stab wounds?

Am I reading this correctly? A Sikh can legally carry a BLADE?

It takes one lunatic to abuse that privilege, as has been the case here.

This needs to stop. NOBODY of any faith should be able to legally carry a weapon.

Why the hell should we, as a historically and constitutionally Christian Country, accept this?!

The media played it down but they are a shame on the Sikh community. Henry has been murdered and they use the court to shout out their views

The father of Nottingham attack victim Grace O'Malley Kumar (look. An person of colour) is not overly confident in the IOPC being able to do anything useful on this

https://nitter.net/drsanjoykumar/status/2061845605043867959#m