Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I had no idea that Scotsmen carried these blades for cultural reasons. It shouldn’t be allowed. It takes one lunatic to cause a catastrophe with it.

How many Scotsmen are dressed in full regalia on a day to day basis with these weapons? How many Sikh’s walk around on a day to day basis with these weapons?

Religion should never, ever be an excuse for allowing this. It’s as simple as that. There’s no reason that carrying a blade is acceptable. A change has to be made after this horrendous situation.

Everything about this case is wrong. Terrible policing. An active attempt to use racism to obscure the truth, a weapon said to be permitted to a small group for religious purposes, and then a hideous, terrifying death for a young man for nothing.

Some of it can be fixed. But it will involve a lot of compromises rather than asserting rights.

Otherwise you will have riots every night.

Me too. Used to shut down debate rather than engage in any meaningful dialogue.

Other than sikhs and Scots do any other UK groups have exemptions to carrying weapons ?

I didn't know about either before today so wondering if there are more.

The sentencing remarks posted also give a detailed description of what happened.

Our snivelling, shit bag of a PM needs to address this as a matter of urgency. Change has to come.

Exactly. They walk about day to day a there has NEVER BEEN A CASE OF KNIFE CRIME WITH THEM.

This man who did this had illegal weapons, and had carried those in public (he and his brother have now been charged with that), the blade he used was actually an extra blade that not all Sikhs actually need to carry and I agree that the extra larger blade should be banned. He was also known for his issues and they had been ignored by police before, despite stealing weapons from a temple. What this man did is the same as any other knife crime with an illegal knife. It has zero to do with Sikhs being allowed to carry. Changing that law will make zero difference to knife crime. This man carried illegal knives, axes, knuckle dusters. It just happened that the day he stabbed someone, it was with a Sikh knife.

Agree about the hand cuffs - totally unjustified- he posed no threat to anyone and did t seem to look like he could run any where but I think it’s just standard practice now to get the cuffs on.

I simply cannot agree with you on this.

I understand that Sikhs haven’t abused this privilege before - as far as I know- but how can this be a risk that we as a Country can be comfortable to take?

It takes another lunatic to see this story, see that it’s legal, and suddenly they’re proclaiming to be a Sikh. And how can we know that no other Sikh going forward won’t do harm with this weapon?

It has everything to do with Sikh’s being allowed to carry. If he wasn’t allowed, maybe that beautiful boy would still be here.

Yes, that monster was unhinged and the police have failed AGAIN, but we can’t ignore the fact that this scumbag was carrying a blade and wouldn’t be prosecuted for carrying it.

What’s all the noise about equality for if we aren’t going to practice it?

Footage was even worse than I expected, those police should be in prison as they surely contributed to his death
im so very sorry for Henry's family

a young person with his life ahead of him

I do feel tho that the tide has turned and people are so so sick of this now
I do think this will be a turning point

what I actually don’t get tho is the people that stabbed him, why did they call the police as they’ve effectively shopped themselves
in suprised they didn’t stab him and run if that’s what they wanted to do ?
surely they must have realised it would be discovered they’d stabbed him ?

100 this. If this were my community all the women surely would be saying ‘Nope don’t need these religious symbols any more - far too dangerous for our young men to have these’ times have moved on and religion should move on also. When will the adults return to take charge again?

Scots can only carry the Scot weapon while in full Scot kilt dress right? How often do Scots wear full dress?
Is it illegal to carry knife if in normal clothes?

I don't think their should be any exceptions.

The issue with allowing one group to legally carry a weapon that a different group would be illegal to carry is it's harder to police. If A walks down the street brandishing a weapon and is approached by police. If they say they belong to the legal group this makes it hard for the police to act even if they suspect the person is dodge

We could look at licensing like with guns but even with a gun licence you can't routinely walk around with it on display.

You realise that you could carry a knife if you wanted to? Plan a BBQ at a friends, and you can walk through London with a set of knives to take over. That’s allowed - a legitimate reason to be carrying them. And nothing would stop you getting in a fight and stabbing someone up on the way. Your carrying of the knives was perfectly legal, but the following act of murder wasn’t.

Anyone can do it.

The issue with knife crime is not those people carrying them legally, having grown up in a culture where they are respected and using them is an absolute no. The problem with knife crime is the illegal carrying but thugs who want to use them.

Knife crime legislation needs to come with common sense, to balance culture and need (like chefs, or you on your way to a BBQ) as well as real action to prevent those dangerous people from having them.

Everyone carrying all the time - a recipe for disaster especially because almost all of them will not have been raised to know never to use it. It would be open season for thugs.
Allowing some people to carry doesn’t affect knife crime, most of you didn’t even know! That’s how little effect it has.

I would agree that this guy should have been banned. Police should have taken action 2 years ago when he stole weapons, and had they taken action then they’d have found his cache of illegal weapons. People who clearly present as a known danger should have a ban on them even when it is cultural or a legitimate need, so no career using knives either.

We need more education, harsher punishments for even minor infringements. If a Sikh ever even unsheathed their knife, that should be a proper sentence - they don’t as it is against their tenets, but it should be written into law.

Common sense and more nuance. But a blanket ban won’t change anything. And you or anyone could still make a legitimate excuse to carry one and then use it illegally. That doesn’t happen because the actual problem members of society are those carrying illegally.

I hope you walk the walk of being ‘done’ and refuse medical treatment, service or any other help from the people you are ‘done’ with. And I hope you are removed from every setting where you refuse. Be racist, be done, if you choose. But be brave enough to let us all know so we can turn our backs on you too.

What needs remembering is that knives are offensive weapons and carrying them needs a legitimate reason.

Perhaps it is time to remove knife carrying for religious or ceremonial purposes as being legitimate.

I think wiccans can also carry an Athame dagger to and from rituals, meeting groups etc. But only for that specific situation; going to a meeting group for a ritual. Because that’s a legitimate part of their use in the faith. So would be a legitimate reason to carry. Safely secured of course, same as anyone else for a legitimate reason. But they can’t just carry them around everyday as that’s not a part of their use faith to have one for personal protection of ritualistic everyday wear.

IKR?

Sadly, this will end one way. The government/media will claim there is a backlash against Sikhs, there will be sympathy for the Sikh community (for which read ethnic minorities), racism is on the increase, etc. And we will be back to square one.

What do you mean by ‘enough is enough’?

I don’t think we’ll ever know the truth of how Henry ended up stabbed to death outside this family’s home, on their driveway, walking home alone from a night out with friends.

I mean that in itself should have rung alarm bells with the police as to why a young man was lying on the ground alone on someone’s driveway stated he’d been stabbed surrounded by a whole family.

I feel so sad for this young man and his family.

In terms of policing, this institutional bias really needs to be looked at. Just because you saw something once or didn't see something once you have to ask are you making assumptions. Where was the critical thinking in this incident? I'm sorry but it looks the officers were thick as shit. We pay for our police. Do better.

I want more police accountability. I think they said the man would have died in any scenario due to his injuries. But something has to change.
I think the statement I can't breathe should trigger a set of different actions by the police. It cannot be ignored. At the very least some basic fucking first aid.

I don’t like that the dad and son are on bail and not on remand. That irks me

The Skean dhu now handed out with full highland attire is fake now and not the blade and wee scabbard that used to get handed out and it's been like that for years.

Most rent for a wedding as the full bifta handmade is big bucks.