Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

@Fixydodah did you miss this? Unprovoked Saudi student (here paying private fees) stabbed by a white British coke head - sentenced yesterday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8p08e3jz0o

Migration is a result of many factors one of the biggest is war (caused by the West) and colonisation. Maybe if GB didn’t colonise to the extent it did then some of these countries would be the richest in the world and there is no chance they’d come to third world Britain because that’s what it would be without colonisation.

But it's kind of the problem isn't it? (Well, one of many problems). No white cop would dare to question Digwa's knife because they wouldn't feel "legitimate" to say "hey mate that's not a kirpan put it down". They would be called racist, cultural appropriator, ethnocentric and the likes instantly.

Factual criteria like " knife allowed for everyone up to that many inches " at least make sense. Feeling based criteria like "knife allowed but only if you say you're of a certain religion but then only certain knives that unnamed others believe are the right ones" do not.

It’s becoming like a third world with the colonisation in the last 5 years’ as far as I’m concerned.

it used to be much better before all the mass immigration since 2000 and the indigenous population of the UK has very little control over what the British Empire did in the past

however it is awful for this poor man who was stabbed in Cambridge

Mass immigration under Blair was mainly white european christian, many Brexitiers made the argument being in the EU was "racist" well you got what you wanted....

Mass immigration since 2016 has been totally different.

The Boris and Sunak waves let in 4.2m from SE Asia and Africa.

We voted for all of this.

True but I don’t think most of it was necessary or beneficial to the working classes

Well, the economy boomed in the 2000s, we even ran a current acc surplus, migrants from the EU did the jobs we didn't want to do and would work the hours we would not, they were also far younger as an average and didn't bring dependents.

But more importantly, it should be remembered most of the European migrants have and are returning to their countries of origin, as eastern european countries grow, very cheap and easy to do so.

Migrants from Asia and Africa wont go home and bought in dependents, inc their parents and children.

As the Telegraph have said, this wave and scale of migration has changed the UK forever, all from the party that still campaigns on lower immigration.....

It wasn’t. Most people today forget that historically, the left and trade unions were against immigration as it flooded the labour market, suppressed wages and made it harder to bargain for better workers’ rights. It’s the rich business owners and employers who benefit from mass immigration and cheap labour.

Wage growth was suppressed after 2008 and GFC..... we had v lower interest rates/inflation, public sector pay freezes... all led to low wage growth.

Its an excuse to say its all down to immigration.

I worked in private sectors unaffected by immigration but still had pay freezes, the company argument was inflation is 1.5%, average public sector pay is 1%... so you can have 0% or 1%....

Prior to 2009 we had decent above inflation pay rises and often got bonuses too.

But yes of course in some sectors, immigration did affect pay but the primary reason was Austerity.

I can't remember the exact words but as I heard it the brother said that the 'attacker' was a bit drunk (or words to that effect) and had blood on his face. I can't see from what he said that the police could get any sense of how badly Henry was hurt.

Yes, i agree with you, so the Kirpan is legal and is worn by approximately 10% of Sikhs. The knife length can be up to 9 inches.
The 2nd knife Digwa carried was not a Kirpan, the judge called it a Sikh knife and in his sentencing remarks, he said it was legal to carry for his religious observance. But the Sikh Council UK made a statement that, the knife was not a Kirpan and in no way represents the Sikh faith .

So who is right about this?
The Sikh council UK are directly contradicting the judge.

I keep repeating and questioning the sentencing because the judge has sentenced Digwa as if he didn't pre-meditate this crime. He started sentencing at 15years instead of 25 years but Digwa was carrying that blade to do harm and no other reason. He was obsessed with weapons, as was his family.

I've previously said I want all religious and cultural knives banned from being carried in this country but actually I think I just want the law changed. The knives can be no longer than 2-3 inches, in line with the current law that applies to the carrying of pocket knives. The blade on the Kirpan would have to fold away.

Sikh people are not the problem here, they shouldn't be punished because of what one man did.
Vickrum Digwa and his disgusting family are the problem.

His knife is exempt anyway. It wasn’t a kit pan but it was a religious knife exempt at 8 inches. There’s an image of him wearing it to work.

@EasternStandard who gets to say it's a religious knife?

@summermidnightsun absolutely that's why Corbyn etc were against being in the EU .

Yes one of the reasons. There was a big Lexit faction - but they were useless / limp in stating their views.

What's more interesting about The Inevitable Intervention from America is it's JD Vance and not Trump

This is a bit Dead Cat strategy but is him kicking off about European civilization decline a convenient cover to deflect people asking about Trump being absent?

Gemini informs me he was absent for a week and only did one public appearance on Friday

I see that a knowledge of world history has passed you by.

Yes you can see how they were mislead.

These are all fine anti racist diversity training course talking points. Yes. Imperialism : BAD.

I applaud, really I do. It's the standard online clapback.

But are you really trying to imply the ultimate cause of Henry Nowaks murder was Clive of India?

The so-called Boris wave are the ones who must go as they have changed the country and our communities immeasurably.

The sheer numbers are staggering.

Reform and Restore want to remove them, we can't afford it and are sunk it is not sustainable on any level - our services and housing is in a state of collapse.

Only very radical action can stop further decline.

I think Reform and the Conservatives have mooted legislation to stop the wave getting indefinite leave to remain. Does Labour have a suggested legislation? Should they?

I have met a few Sikh people in my life and had close contact with some for quite long in hospital in the past and they always struck me as good peaceful people. I had no idea that some of them may carry knives on their person. They are allowed to all carry knives it seems less than 9 inches.

Some from this order of Nihang may carry a second weapon. Somebody else mentioned that they did this because they were at odds with Muslims. This again doesn't help the idea that they were just peaceful people. It is not good to think that they go round with knives-so it was helpful to read on here that it is only about 10% of Sikh people who do so.

I think that if there is some conflict between Muslims and Sikh's that this may need conflict resolution and coming together to resolve this in this country. This may help the knife use to be phased out. In some countries inter religious dialogue have proved helpful in resolving conflicts.

Disappointing to see that 11 Sikh MPs have released a statement asking for the debate to move away from it being about Sikh religion. Noticeable that they are not calling for the carrying of the kirpan to be stopped, obviously feeling that their religious beliefs are more important.

As regards Sikhs and Muslims, my understanding is that many Sikh girls were targeted by the rape gangs too. That seems to have been under reported.

@upinaballoon the call handler asks the brother does he need medical help and he says yes, describes he has fallen , says blood is coming from his mouth he's fallen over a fence landed ln a car and his face is hurt etc.

He says he needs medical attention !! And the call handler says he is calling an ambulance ??

@Alexandra2001

It should also be remembered that none were ever counted in (Eastern European wave) so the reality is you can't make any claims that most have gone home !
It was only when bulge classrooms were suddenly built on playgrounds/ a and e was swamped / services had to be pulled and redirected/ maternity services in particular started to fail that the gov started to realise the massive issues .

@Lalgarh I responded to a sweeping claim about immigration with a real example that didn't fit the narrative, and instead of engaging with it, you've dismissed it as a "diversity training clapback" and attributed an argument to me that I never made.

No, I don't think Henry was murdered because of colonialism. Henry was murdered because one violent individual chose to murder him.

But equally, I don't think one murder proves that immigrants, their children, Sikhs, or ethnic minorities are the cause of Britain's problems.

@Fixydodah comment moved from discussing a specific crime to making sweeping claims about millions of people. That's the bit I was challenging.

The Saudi student stabbed by a white British man doesn't make me draw conclusions about all white British people. Henry's murder doesn't make me draw conclusions about all Sikhs or immigrants either.

Either we judge people as individuals, or we don't. The principle shouldn't change depending on who the offender is.