Should anti-Muslim Crusades imagery at marches be treated as incitement?

[noblegiraffe]

Tommy Robinson's march had a strong anti-Muslim sentiment. He was filmed saying that he would end Islam if he was in charge of the country and that Muslims should leave. Meanwhile, Kellie-Jay Keen said "It is not too late to get Islam out of every single official office in this country... we have to remove Islam from every single place of authority."

In this context, the imagery of the Knights Templar which was evident on flags and banners was an obvious reference to the Crusades and battles against Muslims. One attendee dressed up as Richard the Lionheart.

In a society which is saw a 19% increase in hate crimes against Muslims last year, should this sort of symbolism be seen as threats and incitement and banned in a similar way to 'globalise the intifada'? (As to the comments of the speakers, I'm not sure what's happening there but I hope the police take action).

So you would ban everybody’s right to protest rather than rein in those who are inciting hatred? I’m not sure that’s better.

For many Muslim women, wearing the burka is a deeply personal choice rooted in faith, modesty and dignity.

It allows them to be judged by their character, intelligence and actions rather than their physical appearance.

Far from oppressing women, it is liberating - freeing them from the male gaze, catcalling and the exhausting pressure to constantly present themselves for public approval.

The idea that the burka equals subjugation is often pushed by those who don’t understand it. It leads to empowerment, protection and spiritual connection.

If you don't understand it, don't comment. Otherwise, you're doing Tommy Robinson's work for him.

Why would you have a problem with pre-revolution Iranian flags?

Not sure if that poster was being serious but have reported her racist and inflammatory comment.

Well I know people don't like facts but Islam is a problem. 75% of terror incidents are due to islamists. It's not the far right attacking our Jewish community. A lot of these are funded by the Islamic regime in Iran. Afgahni men are 22% more likely to be convicted of rape than natives. Even when the stats were fiddled to make this look better for these migrants (which meant admitting the amount of migration from Afghanistan was well under reported) it came out at 3 times the amount! So yeah some of us are fed up of this bullshit. Hide under a rock all you like. In our town we've had stabbings by afghans, our high streets full of Turkish barber shops and vape shops (aka money laundering and drug dealing) and groups of Muslim men hanging around. Parts of the town where it is literally muslims and no locals. We've had enough of it. Call us racist we don't care we won't put up with it anymore! The people that don't care are middle class twits that don't have this on thier doorstep so aren't confronted by it everyday. Quite frankly we don't care less about your opinion of us. This scenario is repeated all over Europe, hence the rise of parties to the right all over Europe because they too have had enough of the migration crisis fucking up thier countries too.

What?

yes, I’ve been treated very kindly by white Christian women.

Nonsense. Look at where and how it is used - it is a tool of misogynistic oppression and one that you very rarely saw in the UK 20 years ago.

the rise of niqab and full coverage is indicative of an extreme form of Islam
which is incompatible with western democratic values.

Again - kindly - speaking about Muslim women when you are not a Muslim woman is literally a far right tactic that comes from ignorance

I don't have a problem with pre-revolution Iranian flag.

Have you ever been to a gig where you don't want to wear a t-shirt of the band that's playing because it's too obvious so you wear a niche but related t-shirt and soak up the nods of recognition of fellow fans? If you're thinking of people who fight Muslims, you've got the Knights Templar, the Israelis, and the pre-revolution Iranians. And of course Richard the Lionheart.

Surely the issue is not clothing, the issue is MEN.

Nah I lived in the middle east (not in Dubai) people are extremely polite to women in burqas but they are functionally invisible. No-one is judging them on their intelligence or character because they don’t even see them. It’s a such a lie propgated to muslim women. Women with hijabs are treated as individuals because people can see them smile and laugh or frown etc etc. The burqua dehumanises women to be frank.

I would say the victims of Muslim terrorists and much of the UK Jewish population might have something to say about "they've done nothing"

Please don't fall for the obvious wind-up, people.

DH has recently been reading Pete Hegseth’s book ‘American Crusade’, published in 2020. Apparently Hegseth is a great admirer of the Popes of old and their crusades, and look at what’s happening in the world right now!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Crusade

I do think men dressing up as crusaders is very weird.. I mean weren’t the crusades in the Middle Ages which were 100s of years ago?? Times change…

Just not seeing the issue with Muslims; I’ve got Muslim friends, colleagues, neighbours, they’re exactly like Christians & Jews in that they are not one homogeneous group - all Muslims differ in how they worship, if they worship at all.. whether they drink alcohol, their politics, way of life, ethnicity / culture, values.. etc etc.
You just cannot look at people who happen to be the same religion and then stereotype them as everyone is an individual!
That is why racism, sexism, Islamophobia, anti semitism, homophobia, transphobia etc are so stupid.

And yet the same people that tell us the niqab is empowering also tell us men can be women.

I'm sure the women put to death for not wearing their Islamic clothing felt totally empowered. I saw one woman blinded in one eye by the regime telling people how empowered she felt...oh no hang on she was being abused by the crowd.

Same old same old.

Why don't men wear them?

He would “end Islam” - that worst than “war on terror”

what an idiot that man is

Unless the religion is an extreme version of Judaism it seems.

Perhaps someone could start a thread about niqabs because this one is about men cosplaying as crusaders.

Which is a point, I don't think I saw any female crusaders.

Yeah this is a bit much isn’t it, if we are judging Christianity for it’s history and the nuttiest of it’s lot then why not Islam? The nuttiest evangelicals have maybe attacked abortion clinics, the nuttiest muslims have tried to create a state where they had slave markets for sex slaves and set fire to people in cages and encourage crimes against civilians pretty much constantly.

The idea that any religion should be above reproach is just ridiculous isn’t it. Now obviously the vast majority of Christians are not harassing people outside abortion clinics and the vast majority of muslims don’t actually have sex slaves. But if we feel comfortable criticising Christianity why not Islam. I am not a member of either religion btw.

You could say the same thing about lots of western clothing. I whip my bra off as soon as I get home, if it were more socially acceptable not to wear one I wouldn't! I would love to wear shorts but because I have the 'wrong' legs I don't wear them. I have to send my SEND kid with sensory issues into secondary school trussed up in clothing that drives him nuts because he has to if he wants to go to that school. Up and down the UK men will be controlling what women wear.

Just because some women are oppressed into that sort of clothing doesn't mean we should deny other women the right to wear it should they choose. Those women who whipped the burka off on stage don't give a fuck about Muslim women.

@WildEnergySupplier

thank you for explaining that so well - I always find it hard to think western women are free in their bodies - they definitely don’t seem it

it should however be a choice

I wish people would learn the difference between a religion and its followers. But I think it's deliberate obfuscation.

It's absolutely fine and normal to want Islam out of our schools and government. It's not the same as individual Muslims. Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one but don't wave it around in public or at work.

@ErrolTheDragonHegseth is a known White Supremacist who has the associated tattoos (there are quite a few photos that show his tattoos)..
also it’s interesting that he admires the previous Popes, as both the current Pope Leo & the Pope before Leo have had the same very negative opinions of Trump & the MAGA movement.