Toy phone or potential meltdown at a family restaurant meal?

[NavigatingASD]

Having a disagreement with dh about the best way to manage ds (7, autistic) at an upcoming family meal.

He can stay very calm if has a particular toy phone to play with (lights games sounds etc) it’s got 2 volume settings but doesn’t go very loud . Dh says it’s going to be inappropriate but without it ds shouting / screaming / noises will be much more noisy?? Which will annoy other people more than a toy!

We’ve had this discussion before. I always take the toy but this time he’s saying it’s not going to be ok. It’s not a particularly quiet restaurant anyway. It will keep ds calm so I can’t see the problem but what do others think is more annoying - a child on a moderately at worst noisy toy that actually may not be audible if the restaurant is very busy or a screaming child who is overwhelmed and/ or bored?

Best post so far. The ND brain is on a different wavelength.

I would walk out if I could hear another child's toy in a restaurant and it wasn't being dealt with immediately. Why should you spoil the evening for everyone around you? You have a choice - don't take a child somewhere that you already know will be in earshot of others trying to enjoy their time out.

If other people will be disturbed by the toy, then I wouldn’t bring it. Maybe it would be better to avoid this particular outing if your son will become distressed. That doesn’t mean excluding him from all family activities, of course. But it isn’t fair to set him up to fail. Can you start slowly, stopping by a casual cafe for a few minutes, then build on that experience? Help him develop his skills and tolerance bit by bit? How are his communication skills, both receptive and productive?

My daughter has very significant disabilities including autistic type behaviours. She is non-verbal and very cognitively impaired. She rejected gloves and hats for a long time, at 25 she still removes gloves or mittens. It took about 8 months when she was little for her to consistently tolerate the glasses she needs to see clearly.

She also rejected headphones when we first got a tablet with apps on it. Like you, I could see how helpful the tablet could be for longer family meals out instead of just board books but obviously you can’t inflict audio on other diners so I took her and the tablet to a park bench and explained in the simplest terms possible like “outside we use headphones” and went through the process of calmly giving her the tablet with headphones and calmly removing it every time she threw the headphones then asking her if she wanted the tablet, letting her sign yes and then returning it with the headphones - and repeat. She accepted it in record time, maybe 20 minutes, I can’t remember, in a single session which was much better than I expected, probably because it was a strong and instant reward and highly motivational and the connection was easy to make: headphones or no tablet.

People may think that was awful of me but our neurotypical children have to accept or do things they would rather not such as brush teeth; do homework; not shout and scream or be removed from a public space; not chase ducks and they sometimes react very strongly to that. I think we all benefitted from that 20 minutes of stress and getting swiped (me, not her).

Now maybe it will take longer and more than one session with your son but I think the key is not to attempt it when you need to, that is not in the situation you are planning for but in advance when you can ride it out without disturbing others or losing your cool, - our bench was beside a path so people were only passing by. I’d never have attempted it in a restaurant.

Within a few weeks she would sign “headphones” - point to her ears, to request her tablet when she wanted it if we were in a restaurant.

I would find other ways of doing this. A restaurant environment doesn't sound like the ideal place for now. I'd be pissed off in this situation. Eating out isn't cheap.

Well… I’m sorry as I understand your choices are limited here with SN but actually neither is appropriate. Noise making toys aren’t for public spaces and children screaming and overwhelmed should be removed from the situation that is upsetting them.

The answer is probably that taking your son to an environment where he cannot behave appropriately is… inappropriate. However unfair that may feel.

OP what does your DH want to do?

Your DH goes to the meal and you stay home with the kids. You can’t disturb everyone around you. Your DS doesn’t override everyone else. I say that as a parent to kids with SN, one of whom had ASD and ADHD, because we were not selfish arseholes.

As an adult they can’t manage restaurants all the time. Sometimes they just can’t go, sometimes they go and have to leave at a point, other times they are fine the entire time. All of that is fine. They have a good professional job, a lot of responsibility but restaurants are not essential pieces of life at all so don’t subject your child and other diners to the stress.

I agree.

OP it would probably be best to stick to places like PizzaHut rather than somewhere posh and snobby where unkind people might get aggravated.

And yes the toy is likely the better option. If you have a spare would one that had the speaker removed be an option?

What is posh or snobby about wanting to eat in peace?

This is such a helpful post. Thank you.

Fuck me there is so much wrong with your first paragraph. It is not posh or snobby to feel annoyed or distressed by noise levels. And being ‘aggravated’ does not make people ‘unkind’.

You can look at other ways of communicating sign language, symbols, social stories etc

You and DH should sit either side of DS to absorb noise and keep an eye. Once the wine is flowing, hand over the phone. Enjoy OP.

Rather than discussing the specific toy or your ds’ behaviour and needs, have a conversation with your ds about his feelings around family judgement, parenting a sn child , doing things differently to other generations and to parents with different dc.

Mum of an autistic child here. You cannot take a noisy toy into a restaurant. You find other calming methods. And you remove the child if he is disruptive. People pay good money to enjoy themselves and relax.

What is your husband's actual suggestion? Who will be responsible for your child in this scenario?

Is there a private dining area/room you could request so that the noise is contained with just your party. This may suit him anyway as there would be fewer noises/distractions?

Otherwise, if you feel he cannot cope with the environment I think you will need to choose to step away from this one. We’ve had lots of events where only one parent/child has attended because the other just isn’t in the right frame of mind that day. Family know and understand this given both mine at AuDHD.

Why should people in Pizza Hut have to listen to a toy phone or a screaming child?

Unless you're talking about lunch at a soft play, you cannot bring a noisy toy into a restaurant. As you said, you are trying to get him used to it being quieter so you fully intend on it being at full volume - but either way, there's no way everyone around you won't have to listen to it.

My daughter is autistic and like others said, you can't 'desensitise' them to feelings. You can figure out how to support them in experiences they are interested in doing, you can work on situations that cannot be avoided, but you can't change how they experience things. But I really don't think it would be helpful to show them that this is an option as it really isn't fair to anyone around them (including my incredibly noise sensitive daughter who would have to leave if she was at the next table - not that her challenges are more important than yours, but it certainly shouldn't be expected to listen to beeping for an hour during dinner!)

Don’t take the toy.

If you want to get him used to restaurants why not go to McDonalds or somewhere where you can take the food out with you if he starts struggling.
Take a seat with him and then leave if you need to.

I think your husband needs to entirely separate what his family will think about or feel about it, and what your son needs.

Because your son's progress can't be hurried along on a whim, and deciding under pressure isn't going to change his needs.

Family worth making the effort for wouldn't make a "family" meal something one of the family would have to make an effort for..

I absolutely agree.

But unless he can try new experiences to see if he can learn to cope, he'll be disruptive in most places, so is op meant to lock him up at home so he doesn't disrupt the nice people? Op has said its a family place, her child will not be the only child causing noise. The toy is probably quieter than a rowdy table of adults after a few pints! You can't just ban her kid from being in the world cos it might affect you.