Toy phone or potential meltdown at a family restaurant meal?

[NavigatingASD]

Having a disagreement with dh about the best way to manage ds (7, autistic) at an upcoming family meal.

He can stay very calm if has a particular toy phone to play with (lights games sounds etc) it’s got 2 volume settings but doesn’t go very loud . Dh says it’s going to be inappropriate but without it ds shouting / screaming / noises will be much more noisy?? Which will annoy other people more than a toy!

We’ve had this discussion before. I always take the toy but this time he’s saying it’s not going to be ok. It’s not a particularly quiet restaurant anyway. It will keep ds calm so I can’t see the problem but what do others think is more annoying - a child on a moderately at worst noisy toy that actually may not be audible if the restaurant is very busy or a screaming child who is overwhelmed and/ or bored?

But then OP and the family ends up not being able to partake in social gatherings? Many special occasions/ social events are in restaurant type environments. It leaves families horribly isolated

How rude. This is the general Chat forum. OP did not say she only wanted comments from people with experience of autism.Unlike you, she was probably thinking about the other people in the restaurant as well as her son, and trying to weigh his needs and wishes against theirs.

Perhaps I was misunderstanding. I didn't feel I was arguing with you, so apologies if I was. I was just addressing the part of your comment where you suggested that my opinion was ableist and that I thought that people triggered by noise should have to pay more money to eat in a way that suits their needs. That wasn't what I meant, so I was clarifying what I do as a ND person myself to manage my triggers at a family restaurant in that situation. And that I wouldn't expect someone to stay home for me, or be okay with being expected to stay home myself all the time either.

Take it with you, but before you go call the restaurant and make sure they can seat you in a corner or somewhere that the toy will distract others the least. That spot will also reduce the feeling for your child of being surrounded by other customers. I guarantee you that other families will have kids roaming the restaurant, have dogs under the table yapping or just generally loud voices. The reason your child needs it is because everyone else in there is causing them to be over-stimulated! Age appropriate is not applicable here and you are a good parent for thinking ahead and trying to find a solution. I have to say though... the devil on my shoulder is saying secretly pack it, but don't get it out at the start. Let DH sit next to them and deal with the screaming and then when its all too much for DH, produce it and be smug. Haha. I have had 25 years of being in your predicament. Keep your nerve. You are including your child in a normal public place. They have a right to be there and to enjoy it and they can use whatever toy they need to make that accessible for them. Never hide them away and always do what you need to do in order to keep them regulated. You've got this!

I think there may have been misunderstanding on both parts so I apologise too.

I guess it’s an occupational hazard when two ND strangers are talking 😬

How long is the meal? I understand you want to create normal experiences, but I am not sure you are at the stage of doing that yet without causing an upset. Could you work on reducing the noise before going for a big family meal?

Also it's hard to gage the type of restaurant as initially it sounded quiet, but then detail has been added about it being family friendly. If it's one of the chain type places then I think you would be fine. Especially if it's at lunchtime or early evening.

In a noisy family restaurant I doubt anyone would notice the toy, but they will notice a screaming child and you know they will judge you for it. Take the toy. There’ll be people there with mobiles pinging, ringing etc so it’s just another phone noise? Good luck

I’m late to the thread, but OP you are incredibly naive if you think you can cure autistic sensory overwhelm through exposure therapy. It won’t work.

You need to change the noisy sensory overwhelm environment that drives the need for him to have a calming toy that is also noisy. It calms him because he will be focussing on the toy to try and block out the noisy restaurant. The appearance of outward calm doesn’t mean this is at all a pleasant experience for him. For most autistic children with this sensory overwhelm, this is an exhausting, stressful experience that they feel they must do to please their parents.

If you want him to enjoy the pleasant experience of eating with family, you need to first make it enjoyable by eating at home with restaurant food delivered or collected as a take away. Once he is able to eat and be social with family at home, then try the restaurant. We used to go as soon as a restaurant opened and we always asked for a quiet corner away from the toilets and kitchen.

However, depending on his autism 7 may be a bit young for this, you might be better off restricting eating out with family to the summer months where you can eat outside in a pub beer garden, or a national trust place where they have cafes right by a child’s play area so it isn’t crowded and if he is playing with a toy or being noisy that is acceptable behaviour.

Diving into the deep end with a noisy toy in a noisy indoor packed restaurant isn’t going to make it enjoyable for him or anyone.

I realise Autism varies so much but my AuDHD 6yo who is also in a mainstream school would enjoy a sticker book or activity book or small game or being read to for a certain amount of time in a restaurant, then we would probably switch to the iPad (with headphones). Or if there's a play area someone might take him outside. Perhaps DH would compromise with having the toy phone as backup in a bag or on the car but trying some other ideas first?

Yeah I think the 3rd option of NOT taking him to a grown-up restaurant is a better one. He needs graded exposure to these environments, in a low-stakes manner. So get him used to McDonalds or Pizza Hut in the afternoon before trying a Nando’s in the early evening.Places that are very ‘family’ where other diners expect/tolerate noise. When he’s used to that you could try something more grown up.

You need to get a handle on gently teaching him to behave and be quiet. Regulating through calm guidance from you as a parent is something to start now.

The toy sounds fine. Surely no one going to a family restaurant will begrudge a child.wiyh a toy? Half the kids there will be on tablets or phones anyway. 7 is still so little, he has a good decade to be able to master social norms.

We avoid eating out where possible, as ds2 can't cope with it. Yes it means we miss out, but there is a huge number of demands involved. New surroundings, loud people, different food from home, having to wait to order, then wait for your food, then wait while other people eat so uou can have pudding. It's a heck of an ask for kids that have difficulties with demands.

On balance, my DS is ASD and sounds like this set him off. Difficult as we accept we share a space; but my bugbear are toys like this to restaurants. We accept places like McDonalds so we get a drivethrough, sit down restaurants we just hope for a little more.

@NavigatingASD
Could you put a small plaster/elastoplast/band-aid bit of tape over the speaker to further reduce the volume if the noise is a concern?

Going to restaurants with lots of noise, smells, lights, furniture, people, tastes and textures can be overwhelming or overstimulating so bringing a toy that provides comfort is fine. It may not always be this toy phone but for now, it is.

A family meal is a good way to get together and should provide a support network for navigating your way through everyday life and special occasions. If you want to address the toy with relatives, simply saying we've brought the toy phone as our son likes to play with it and he often chooses it when he feels overwhelmed.

I hope your meal goes well. 🥰

we only ever allowed quiet activities in restaurants because I don’t think it’s fair on other diners. One of our kids is ND & was happy with colouring followed by a kids game or movie on our phone through headphones. For years I carried a bag with multiple things to do if we were going anywhere that involved having to sit around for a while & if needed we would take turns doing a movement break. Now that he’s older he can self regulate & has headphones permanently around his neck in case he’s struggling with noise or people.

OP - if the toy works, then take the toy. It’s a simple solution and it works. If your husband is worried about how his family will react, then that’s a separate issue. Managing your child’s needs should come before other people’s opinions.

The world has changed, I believe for the better. Disabled people, including those with severe learning disabilities, are no longer hidden away. That used to happen; it was wrong then, and it’s wrong now.

Autistic children with complex needs have just as much right to be in public spaces and do normal things as anyone else. My daughter, who is autistic and non-verbal, enjoys going out for lunch with her family. She isn’t always quiet, she sometimes makes noise, but that’s ok. We know what she can handle and we prepare. We speak to the restaurant beforehand and ask to sit somewhere a bit out of the way or in a booth so she feels safe.

And yes, we are paying customers too.

I wish my daughter wasn’t disabled. It’s bloody hard. She goes to a specialist school for autistic children where they work to teach her and her classmates life skills. They go out every day. Supermarkets, bakeries, greengrocers, garden centres, pet shops and even McDonald's. Learning how to navigate the world and build life skills matters, because that is the world they have to live in. I can see how much this approach has helped my daughter, and it makes her life better.

My personal opinion is that a random stranger’s right to a quiet meal does not trump my daughter’s right to be part of society. If that bothers them, then that’s their issue to deal with, not hers.

Things have changed. People need to accept that.

I suspect my opinion won’t be popular, so I’m dusting off my hard hat.

People need to think a little more about those of us for whom just going out for a simple meal can be a horrible struggle, requiring a lot of forward planning, fingers crossed and possibly sacrificing a white cockerel to the ASD gods... You're lucky if you've never been in this position. Do you think we enjoy knowing that you're all silently tutting and judging us? We're all part of the same society and have the same rights. Aren't you lucky you don't have to deal with the challenges of having a severely autistic child day-in, day-out?

I wouldn't take my own younger son to a really posh 'grown up' restaurant, but one like the OP describes, a 'family restaurant'? definitely! My son has the same right to go to these places as anyone else, and if it's a place that's aimed at families, then those who seem not to be able to tolerate kid noise can find somewhere more adult.

I do wish it were possible to deaden the noise that battery toys make, though. I like the idea someone else had to put some tape over the speaker - if you'r handy with a screwdriver and the thing isn't actually glued shut, I'd be tempted to see if you can unscrew it and open it up and tape the inside of the speaker grille, then he can't see the tape or pick it off! In fact I can think of a few of DS's toys I might try this out on...

Yep.

I love this post. I have a similar son, he's 38. It's a hard, hard world. The saving grace is that he is oblivious to the opprobrium.

It doesn’t sound like anyone will enjoy this meal out, your husband will be tense as will you and your son. It seems a very high stakes, pressured event that you envisage your son will react to by either having a meltdown or being zoned out with a noisy toy.
As you have said your son is in a mainstream school, in your place currently I would focus on going out to eat with your son just you and/or your husband for short periods for something he likes eg milkshake, cake and make it part of the rules that when you go to this places at the table there is no toy/tablet/phone that makes noise. I would put off extended family meals (especially if your husband is tense about them) until you are more confident and relaxed with this and your son is getting enjoyment out of it. Good luck!

'Behave and be quiet'
For fucking fucks sake.

Can't you ask the family?

I work with children. TAKE THE TOY!!!! You have this toy for this exact reason! It will enable him to participate in a social gathering and allow you to feel included. You can position yourselves at the end of the table and if the toy is too noisy at times (which I highly doubt) you can take your DS for a little walk around.

You're assuming the child, if allowed the toy, will enjoy the restaurant experience.

It's not ableism to think around what is suitable for a child with additional needs, what they will enjoy, what will only be tolerable for them and what might actively distress them. Of course the child has a right to eat in the restaurant - but will he really enjoy it? The OP talks about getting him used to different scenarios but as many posters have said, habituation doesn't work for some autistic people.

It's also worth taking into account other children with additional needs who have noise sensitivities - does his requirement to regulate with a noisy toy as he is otherwise overwhelmed trump their needs?

Neither is acceptable. Get a babysitter and leave him at home - everyone will be happier with that outcome