Toy phone or potential meltdown at a family restaurant meal?

[NavigatingASD]

Having a disagreement with dh about the best way to manage ds (7, autistic) at an upcoming family meal.

He can stay very calm if has a particular toy phone to play with (lights games sounds etc) it’s got 2 volume settings but doesn’t go very loud . Dh says it’s going to be inappropriate but without it ds shouting / screaming / noises will be much more noisy?? Which will annoy other people more than a toy!

We’ve had this discussion before. I always take the toy but this time he’s saying it’s not going to be ok. It’s not a particularly quiet restaurant anyway. It will keep ds calm so I can’t see the problem but what do others think is more annoying - a child on a moderately at worst noisy toy that actually may not be audible if the restaurant is very busy or a screaming child who is overwhelmed and/ or bored?

Absolutely. But most people that would be bothered by this noise would also be bothered by the multitude of other noises in a loud, family friendly restaurant. Plates clattering, a toddler having a tantrum, the man at the next table's loud laughter, a baby screaming, music playing, people singing happy birthday, someone coughing repeatedly... all things that you regularly hear in family oriented restaurants.

Speaking from experience, they would usually either bring ear defenders, speak to the restaurant staff about being seated in a quiet area (if this exists), or they/their family would choose a quieter restaurant in the first place.

Conflicting needs absolutely exist, but this is a poor example to use (trying to meet two children's needs when one is very bothered by repetitive movements and the other needs to stim physically is a much tougher task).

Regardless, if there was a neurodiverse person there who was bothered by this specific noise, neither person's needs would automatically take priority. Ideally, they or the people they were dining with would work with the restaurant to seat them far apart so both could enjoy their meals.

I don't know about the OP - but a babysitter is a pipe dream for many parents of children with complex needs

DS is not ready yet, forgo this instance and start with McDonald’s or harvester.

I’ve explained how we have been going frequently we have already done the places such as cafes moving up to mcds etc and we’ve been going to this family restaurant for a while now. If he has his toy phone he copes fine now we are thinking next stage.

You should 100% try the next phase without witnesses - will totally change the dynamic and it sounds like your husband will find that quite stressful. Go on your own first to see how it goes.

Yes I was about to say this too.

I think the real issue here is his parents sound judgy and unaccepting of DS's challenges.

Is DH really trying to shield them from the noise, or from something deeper?

I think in your position I might contact PILs in advance and ask what they prefer. They need to accept the situation as it is: at present DS struggles to navigate that environment without his toy. Maybe he can't go. Let that be part of their choice.

To be clear, I am not all that tolerant of children generally not learning to adapt to the environment they are being taken to, but there does need to be some leeway for SEN needs.

Yes this is a good next step OP.

God so many people are being absolute di*ks

Take your child, take the phone, ignore the nay sayers.

I have a profoundly autistic and learning disabled child and we're quite fortunate in that her preferred entertainment when out is books - well she would prefer the ipad but as a rule we don't give it her in these environments.

And the amount of times I see other peoples kids, multiple in the same restaurants who are verbal (and I see them having verbal 'typical' conversations with their parents) who are sat on a phone or a tablet. Yet this is somehow deemed okay and a TOY isn't.

We've had to move tables before because a table in the same area and not next to us was watching Duggee which is her favourite show and her 'special interest' as many would call it and she had an absolute meltdown because someone the other side of the room with multiple typical presenting children all on tablets was playing episodes at a loud volume that meant we could hear. Parents just sat drinking, chatting to other adults and generally ignoring their kids.

Do what works for your kid. If it's a family restaurant then they should expect noise.

You can say the word DICK on here without being censored.

In fact you can say any swear word up to and including cunt. 😬

Why didn't you mention in the initial post that you have been to this restaurant before? Assuming you have taken the toy phone then and all was fine then I don't know what the issue is and why this thread even exists!

The naysayer here is OP's husband, which is sort of relevant. Steamrollering over your co-parent's concerns and opinions rarely ends well for anyone.

Also, not sure about the rest of your post - you're saying kids are on iPads too much? And when your child is out they bother her because she can hear them?

Re headphones

have you tried the open ear bone conducting kind? They are not cheap but we found them transformative. Can hear everything around you and listen without noise leaking out.

https://uk.shokz.com/products/openrun-pro2?_pos=3&_fid=d464963df&_ss=c

Im saying that when you go out to restaurants these days its rare not to see kids with ipads, phones playing videos and the like so what is the issue with taking a toy. A lot of these kids dont even have SEN/its not for regulation purposes, so why should a family with SEN feel self conscious about using a toy that makes some noise.
My daughter reads books (no noise) but verbally stims loudly, certainly more noise then a 'not loud' toy would make.

Its not about DHs concerns when hes thinking of how it looks rather than prioritising their child's needs. To put the child through the meal without their means of regulation for the sake of a little noise is short sighted and mum is prioritising what their son needs.

Also there have been a LOT of naysayers in this post which is what I was referring to.

But if it’s still ‘toy or meltdown’ you’ve not really nailed it? He’ll need to practice at an easier restaurant without the toy? If he really needs a toy that makes noise some spaces won’t be accessible to him. I have hearing loss and use hearing aids, I pick adult restaurants for the quiet so I can hear my companion. Electric toy sounds have frequencies that are particularly problematic.

Yeah, I guess I'm just wondering how you know it's not for SEN or regulation for the other children?

I think anything that helps avoid a meltdown is nailing it if I’m honest ! When ds has meltdowns he’s really unwell after and it affects him for days afterwards so to avoid that is a success !

In my previous comment that this person replied to, I said that they were mostly typical presenting - you can never know for sure but from seeing the way they communicate with the parents, their interactions and behaviour.

Also you can usually tell from how the parent is treating them. SEN parents do not relax and basically ignore their kids when in public - there is no relaxing!
See a lot of babies being entertained with Cocomelon on phones as well which is a shame.

To anyone saying that anyone distressed by the noise and lights of the phone would be distressed by other noise: no. For me, and for my son, something like that would cut through the environment, and it would be literally all either of us would be able to focus on. The advent of phones with speakers is making SO MANY environments inaccessible for me, including, increasingly, public transport. Sure, I can wear headphones, and I often do, but it means I can't have a conversation at all, or hear anyone coming, or whatever. Same for my son. Fuck us, though, eh? We should not expect to be able to be out and about and safe.

Exactly that. It’s certain triggers for me, so it sounds similar. Certain pitches made my head hurt

Under whose advice are you trying to desensitise him? Or is just something you've decided will work

you can't make him be not autistic. Maybe try working with him & his needs not against them.

Not many people love headphones. But he can learn wearing them means he can play a game in a device, not wearing them men's he can't. Until he can do that & be distracted calm & quiet, you need to get a babysitter.

Could you cover the speaker with some tape so your DC could take the toy but the sound would be muffled to an extent it wouldn’t bother other diners?

There have been many people suggesting this… at this point in the thread I think most bases have been covered.

I think you're making some sweeping and quite hypocritical assumptions. 'Typical presenting' is a minefield. I agree with the advocation and inclusion of all needs, especially in a family-based environment, but to declare your daughter more 'at need' because of how you behave, and your knowledge of her needs, is quite narrow minded. You may well interpret my child as typically presenting in some instances, but I assure you you wouldn't in others.

All said with the agreement that there is certainly an over-reliance on screens in parenting, but neither you nor I can be the police on that.

Your response to the person who wrote about their hearing aids sounds like "So tough luck on everyone else who may have different problems, because my family's problems are more important."

But the OPs son is one of those who are bothered by the noise. That's why he needs the toy in the first place.