Toy phone or potential meltdown at a family restaurant meal?

[NavigatingASD]

Having a disagreement with dh about the best way to manage ds (7, autistic) at an upcoming family meal.

He can stay very calm if has a particular toy phone to play with (lights games sounds etc) it’s got 2 volume settings but doesn’t go very loud . Dh says it’s going to be inappropriate but without it ds shouting / screaming / noises will be much more noisy?? Which will annoy other people more than a toy!

We’ve had this discussion before. I always take the toy but this time he’s saying it’s not going to be ok. It’s not a particularly quiet restaurant anyway. It will keep ds calm so I can’t see the problem but what do others think is more annoying - a child on a moderately at worst noisy toy that actually may not be audible if the restaurant is very busy or a screaming child who is overwhelmed and/ or bored?

I have a young relative with ASD. As much as possible, we socialise in ways she can access stress free (e.g picnic in the forest). For meals, we try to book private dining rooms so that noise of electronics is limited only to family (who love her) She can then move around more freely as well.

I understand your desire to ‘socialise’ your son but no one needs to eat out and your wishes don’t trump other (non-related) diners’ enjoyment. Eating out is expensive, I’d be upset if I could hear a noisy toy being used for more than the bare minimum of time (e.g enough time for one parent to have finished dining and to remove a disregulated child - ND or NT)

I have a young relative with ASD. As much as possible, we socialise in ways she can access stress free (e.g picnic in the forest). For meals, we try to book private dining rooms so that noise of electronics is limited only to family (who love her) She can then move around more freely as well.

I understand your desire to ‘socialise’ your son but no one needs to eat out and your wishes don’t trump other (non-related) diners’ enjoyment. Eating out is expensive, I’d be upset if I could hear a noisy toy being used for more than the bare minimum of time (e.g enough time for one parent to have finished dining and to remove a disregulated child - ND or NT)

Exactly that!

I wouldn’t go to a family restaurant as I would be in sensory overload within a few minutes but I occasionally brave a standard fairly quiet place.

And your son is potentially going to be distressed by the environment, as is your DH and possibly the rest of the customers. As a PP said, it’s about functioning within ability.

Dh says it’s going to be inappropriate

I think that tells us that it's not the sort of restaurant to have noisy toys at the table.

That’s what I thought.

ND people (including me) have to adapt to things within our tolerance/abilities.

If dh is so sure he can't have the phone then maybe ds can sit next to him.
If your ds wore a lanyard maybe other guests would know why he had the phone.(my dd actually wants one and she's 20!).A noise toy is preferable to a distressed dc in a restaurant imo.
Though I'm not sure you can actually desensitise an autistic dc.. (?).

Stick a plaster or duct tape over the sound speaker bit. Does he have a sunflower land yard as he has a hidden disability, with that people should be understanding. If it’s a family restaurant I bet lots of parents take things to occupy the kids.

I think your approach in general sounds completely fair and reasonable, you want him to be able to go out to eat, you want him to be able to spend time with family in public settings, you think with some practice he'll be able to cope with less noisy/intrusive aids. I don't think anyone would disagree - but I just wonder whether this is the right time and setting to try all of this at once - you'll have the tension of family members who may or may not understand and be supportive, you've got DH not on board, other diners around and their reactions, you're not sure if he will cope with reducing the volume etc or could have a meltdown, and knowing it will create a big kerfuffle and upset if you need to leave in a rush - all that will surely mean a lot of stress for you and that will translate to him and not set him up for success?

I think if it was me (and of course you know yourself and your child best), I would build up to the eventual goal of being able to go to a family meal in a restaurant stepwise, initially a very low key start, very casual environment such as a family friendly cafe where the phone toy won't be a big deal, just you/him/DH and at a time where it doesn't matter at all if you need to bail/leave because it's getting too much, if it goes well see how he does with lowering the volume or even can he cope without the toy at all for short periods once acclimated and comfortable in the environment. Then built up to slightly more formal restaurant settings, but again just you and him so there isn't the pressure of other people's judgement if you need to go or if he gets upset. Then and only then once you're sure it's not going to be too much would I add in other family members to the mix - so I'm not saying he's never ever going to be able to eat in restaurants and must be isolated forever, more that this is something that maybe is too much for him now if he's so dependant on the toy for regulation, and something that like all skills takes practice and support to get there?

Can the volume be turned down?

That might work for people getting annoyed. I have tried to desensitise myself to certain things as a middle aged adult but never managed it.

I have come to terms with the fact I’m limited in some ways because I absolutely thrive in the right environment

If your DH is so worried about judgement from. I'm going to assume his family. Then will he not feel more judged when your child inevitably has a meltdown?

I would say fine, no phone, but DH alone deals with the fallout.

It’s not just the DH dealing with it though. Plus why risk your child being that distressed unnecessarily?

It could be just the DH dealing with it. He leaved the restaurant with the child. I did mean to add have the phone with them, to hopefully calm the situation.

Is it a lunch in a busy pub, or something a bit more upmarket? I wouldn’t enjoy eating on the table next to a noisy toy, but if it were a beefeater/wetherspoons I would be more tolerant than if I was out on the romantic date!

No I meant once that situation has arisen, everyone in the vicinity is dealing with it

It depends on the restaurant - I could perhaps put up with it if it was one where noise is expected, like the Brewer's Fayre ones with the soft play I took my kids to when they were little, with lots of general noise, or our local Wetherspoons, which is very loud. Otherwise I would find it quite annoying either way if I could hear it. I'm quite tolerant to noise to a point, but that type is just repetitive and irritating. But if the low volume is very quiet and there is a lot of background noise then maybe no one will hear it?
Are you sure your DH isn't more worried about disturbing other diners than your own family? I think people paying to have a nice meal deserve not to have to listen to it.

Yes but OP has said they don’t like to leave the restaurant if the child is upset and loud, because she thinks it will help develop long term tolerance.

Surely for only a very small amount of time! I do think the OP should just be able to get her DH to understand the limitations of their child, but it not, then this is a means to an end.

It’s not appropriate. Only one of you goes to the meal and the other stays home with ds, same as all the rest of us would if our children couldn’t sit through a long restaurant meal for an adult event.

The noise of devices without the sound on and no headphones drives nails into me and I would cut my meal short if it was happening, It's everywhere, children and adults, these days and it's really annoying. What's going on in your house doesn't mean that other diners have to be disturbed.

I sympathise with your predicament, but your stuff isn't more important than the other paying customers.

What does he do at school? Presumably he doesn't take the toy to school. What stops him screaming and shouting in that noisy setting?

Sorry but noisy toys with game sounds are the absolute worst and you would be very selfish taking it if any other tables can hear it. I do understand your rationale and wanting to do the best you can to help your son adjust but you wanting to slowly desensitise your son doesn’t trump other diners being allowed a peaceful meal, just make him wear headphones or don’t go. I get it’s difficult, I have an ASD nephew and my own two NT kids both absolutely hated headphones when they were younger but I would never let them play with a noisy toy, use the iPad without headphones etc in public.

It doesn’t matter if it’s only a couple of minutes. The child is distressed and the rest of the place has been disturbed. I couldn’t stay around after that.

OP, ND folks don’t desensitise the way NT lot do- you’re not talking occasional trip to a busy place every now and then; you’re talking years of very very slow build up at your son’s pace and allowing him to leave every time as soon as he feels he has enough (at this point it might be when he shows you cause he might not recognise it yet, especially if he’s low registering). So if you do want to build it up for him, start with trips to visit family gatherings outside, then other family homes, then restaurants when they’re empty…you might never get to a busy family gathering in a noisy restaurant at peak time (would be my idea of hell tbh).
Now, if your son wants to go to this get together that is a different kettle of fish, as this is where inclusion comes in. He has the right to be part of the family and part of the society just as anyone else. So if he does want to go the question isn’t: “what will keep him calm?” the question is: “what will let him participate in the event in the way that works for him?” Is it that he’d like to stay 5min, wave hi and then leave or would he like to stay for the meal and the phone will be the cushioning that he needs? I don’t know your son so you’ll need to ask him in a way that he understands. And keep in mind that he will likely need to leave early, but the more you normalise and support this the more he will feel less overwhelmed trying things and more willing to participate longer.