Toy phone or potential meltdown at a family restaurant meal?

[NavigatingASD]

Having a disagreement with dh about the best way to manage ds (7, autistic) at an upcoming family meal.

He can stay very calm if has a particular toy phone to play with (lights games sounds etc) it’s got 2 volume settings but doesn’t go very loud . Dh says it’s going to be inappropriate but without it ds shouting / screaming / noises will be much more noisy?? Which will annoy other people more than a toy!

We’ve had this discussion before. I always take the toy but this time he’s saying it’s not going to be ok. It’s not a particularly quiet restaurant anyway. It will keep ds calm so I can’t see the problem but what do others think is more annoying - a child on a moderately at worst noisy toy that actually may not be audible if the restaurant is very busy or a screaming child who is overwhelmed and/ or bored?

But can you not see that there is no difference between that child not coping in a restaurant without a noisy toy and my child not coping in a restaurant with a noisy toy in earshot.
Both have needs but these are opposite.

The difference is that my child’s needs would not affect other people’s enjoyment of their paid for meal.

We go to special needs playgroups. They’re very loud, with lots of different sensory needs. But that’s OK, we know what we’re getting in to and can leave if it gets too much. The difference is we’re not spending £200+ on that occasion where someone else’s needs affect whether my son can cope.

If you know that another diner’s experience could be ruined it is not appropriate to take your child to a place they will struggle to cope.

Its such a hard, hard, isolating world having a young child with autism. Just reading the opening comments/replies brings back such a load of sickening memories.
My now adult child is not someone I could take to any restaurant other than McD’s but I am too tired and defeated after thirty years to do that battle any more.

It’s never going to be easy but growing a really thick skin is the best thing you can do because those without a child like yours will not “get it.” They will think it’s “only fair” that their meal not be affected by any noises from your child. In their heads there’s no excuse.

If you were sitting near me or mine, or parents with similar children, we’d pick up that you are a beleaguered mother trying to manage a child with autism and having this tiny attempt at normalcy (as enjoyed without thought by others). We’d not be remotely bothered by the noise of your child’s toy.
The only advice I can offer is (and you’ll probably hate this) but I would put a sticky label on your child’s back saying “I have autism. Please be kind”
This worked for us when we travelled back from Ireland on the ferry with our profoundly affected, extremely noisy small child, who has autism.
I made a t-shirt saying on it, “I have autism. Please don’t gawp when I make funny noises” as the journey there had been miserable because of the stares and comments.
Astonishingly people read it, averted their gazes and many were actually kind, which was unusual and such a (brief) relief.

I’d bring your child’s toy and pat yourself on the back to have found such an effective workaround.

Did you mean to quote me? I’m not disagreeing! I am extremely noise sensitive and have the same level of needs as someone who needs noise to regulate.

Yes we’ve been a few times so it’s familiar

🙄
Maybe try reading up on Autism!

I work 1-1 and it’s bloody hard for the 2-3 hours session a day, let alone 24/7.

Don't comment if you don’t have any understanding about it!

Dh has said he knows his parents will have something to say about it and wanted to avoid that. In general he is a bit anti it anyway but we are going to do a trial run with the volume on the lower setting this weekend and see how ds manages

Can't you take the batteries out so it is his phone but with no sound available. I really don't think it is fair to anyone to allow a noisy toy at a restaurant.

The noise is probably part of what helps him

Disabled people and children are a part of society and we are thankfully past the days where people with disabilities are not allowed to exist outside the institution or house. It's a family restaurant not the Ritz, if you can't accept that there might be children making noise, why would you be at a family restaurant? There are establishments for adults only or for a refined vibe...

Take your son OP and let him have his toy on the quiet setting. To some people on here, the crime of having a disabled (or any) child in public means that whatever choice you make is going to get you villainised. Having him scream is wrong, having him happy with a toy is wrong, having him breathe too loudly or take up any space is wrong. In life we are inconvenienced and frankly if it happens to disturb other diners slightly, AND you are doing your best to manage the situation (not the same as people letting kids run riot) that's just a part of life.

So those of us who are ND and for whom noise is a trigger should have to pay a ton of money? That’s just as ableist as saying disabled people shouldn’t be allowed out. My disability doesn’t affect anyone in the vicinity but it still exists.

Theres no easy solution because of the fact that two people can have valid needs but they can be contradictory.

But the number of posters who are basically saying that disabled people should be accommodated except for the ones who struggle with noise.

Do you not see the expectation that children are quiet being an inconvenience to them and to their parents? It's more than an inconvenience if you're saying they shouldn't be in public places if it can't be controlled, that's pushing them into isolation and hindering the opportunity for the child to learn how to regulate in public. It works both ways.

No one thinks that, but many SEND children (and adults) would in turn find noises like this triggering. Having worked with many autistic children, it tends to be better to shift their focus a little onto something that will better help them integrate into society, though of course this needs to be carefully managed over time.

It sounds in this case as if the phone noises are acting as a sensory shield and, unfortunately, will just be masking the difficulties he has rather than helping him with strategies to properly cope in environments that feel uncomfortable to him.

If they are actually your only options, a noisy toy or a noisy child, I would stay at home. I wouldn't appreciate paying to eat out if there was some sort of loud cacophony at the next table.

At no point have I said that FFS. This isn’t about children in general. I wouldn’t expect people’s NT children to behave when out because they don’t.

I have had to give up most of my life outside work because of the issues I have. I accept that my disability doesn’t really matter.

On the very very rare occasion I go out, if something triggers me, I get up and walk out. How does me being forced to isolate myself affect anyone else outside of my very small circle?

Could you put a bit of tape or hot glue over the speaker bit? He should still be able to hear it enough but it might dampen down the sound so it doesn’t disturb others.

If you’ve eaten there before then is there an area that is a bit noisier than you can ask to reserve a table in? That would hopefully minimise the sound issue of the toy.

No, it isn't. I'm hardly ableist, in fact I'm ND myself and noise is a trigger for me, that's why I plan outings for times that it is less busy and I sit away from the family area when possible - not always possible because I have a child myself. I wear headphones if I can, if not I step out for a few minutes to regulate myself when it gets too much. It would be ridiculous to suggest I stay at home all the time, but it is also ridiculous to ever expect other people to stay at home to accommodate me. It's my responsibility to manage my triggers in a way that includes my needs, just like it's OP's responsibility to manage her child's, which she does by providing a distracting stimulation ( and I would hope taking him out to calm down when he gets overwhelmed).

That would upset him and cause him to be noisier than the toy itself would have been we are trying to gradually decrease the noise

People advocating for those with additional needs to basically stay out of society are awful. Children belong in the world, including one with additional needs. And suggesting he just doesn't go out to eat is very different from the OP assessing whether it's manageable for him and her on this particular occasion. If you want to eat in peace all the time do it in your own goddamn house.

It’s always quite noisy the toy isn’t that loud only low - moderate depending on setting, it isn’t so loud that you could hear it over general chatter / cutlery / plates etc etc I think it would only be tables right next to us we do try to ask for a corner table when we can to minimise this .

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who think like that. You can see a whole swarm of comments that believe that OP shouldn't ever be able to take her son to the restaurant lest he disturb anyone else by being disabled. I agree with you otherwise but I also think short term solutions have to be taken as well, and if the toy lets him eat with the family on this one occasion I don't think it's the worst option.

Because the family will miss special occasions & end up isolated & unable to be part of the wider world? It won't only be restaurants that are difficult - being unwelcome in these sort of environments excludes people from all sorts of social activities.

I know from experience how isolating this is - in the next month alone I'm missing a close family wedding, my DH taking part in an important sporting weekend which lots of other families are able to attend & partake in, my NCT group are doing a week away for half term - I'll be at home looking at the instagram updates & trying not to feel like there's no place in this world for us.

You are clearly misunderstanding.

I don’t expect anyone to accommodate me. I manage my condition as best I can, as do you. It means a very limited social life (going out perhaps once a year when I run out of excuses) in my case.

Not sure why you are arguing with me, when I am basically agreeing with you

In all honesty, I wouldn’t take a child who can’t sit quietly to a restaurant. It’s not fair on the other diners.

I think that sounds fine then. Particularly if you sit him further from nearby tables so no one will hear anything.

If the toy is that quiet then maybe your DH is more worried about judgement from family about your DS having a toy rather than the noise? In which case, that’s the families’ issue not yours!