Toy phone or potential meltdown at a family restaurant meal?

[NavigatingASD]

Having a disagreement with dh about the best way to manage ds (7, autistic) at an upcoming family meal.

He can stay very calm if has a particular toy phone to play with (lights games sounds etc) it’s got 2 volume settings but doesn’t go very loud . Dh says it’s going to be inappropriate but without it ds shouting / screaming / noises will be much more noisy?? Which will annoy other people more than a toy!

We’ve had this discussion before. I always take the toy but this time he’s saying it’s not going to be ok. It’s not a particularly quiet restaurant anyway. It will keep ds calm so I can’t see the problem but what do others think is more annoying - a child on a moderately at worst noisy toy that actually may not be audible if the restaurant is very busy or a screaming child who is overwhelmed and/ or bored?

Even calmer outside the restaurant.

You and yours do not have the right to upset or annoy other people.

My grip is fine but thanks for making it personal. How do you know if I have an ND child or not? I have direct experience of and ND child and navigate fine so don’t need to be told.

I said with volume on indicting rhe noise not being okay.

We went out a a a family last week and both kids sat there with iPads watching movies and parents both on phones. How miserable. Save the money and eat at home.

It is the worst and I stand by that but will add in a restaurant. Clearly worst things in life.

It's tough, isn't it? I'm sorry you have to go through these things too.

I didn't mean to get at you personally. There has just been an awful lot of ableist threads here recently.

I have been in many noisy restaurants and would find a child's toy much less annoying than, say, a large group of adults three sheets to the wind and shrieking at each other, which I have been subjected to more than once.
If the toy isn't super loud it would probably be fine.

Because other autistic children are noise sensitive and 20 kids all having noisy toys or iPads on loud, makes it a horrible experience for them.

The rule at a restaurant is no noisy toys.
Surely that’s just basic manners.

If your child can’t cope, then it’s unfair to that child to put them in a situation that makes them so uncomfortable.

I know lots of autistic children who really struggle to wear clothes, some of which are in their teens.

Is it acceptable for them to go to a restaurant naked or in their underwear just because they’re autistic?

You REALLY need to educate yourself about Autism and sensory processing disorder!!! What you are doing is NOT helpful!! There’s workshops and education sessions all over where you can learn about how to manage ASD properly and wherever you’re getting your ideas from is not helpful to your son long term

I know and I realise I probably sounded defensive - apologies.It sounds tough for you 💐

I agree about the ableism too - people with no skin in the game like to wade in with what they think the OP wants to hear

I think the point is that the ensuing meltdown cannot be helped.

Also not every child needs a toy/ fidget/ comfort item & for most NT children this can be explained/ rationalised in a way that simply doesn't work for many children with autism.

In the same way it would likely be tricky if everyone turned up to a restaurant in a wheelchair there might not be room, but fortunately it's unlikely to happen.

For my client- she actually does use an ipad as a comfort/ communication aid - the fact she looks disabled helps people accept and tolerate this.

I agree except I think you mean ‘autistic people’ - adults may be generally better at hiding it but can still find it overwhelmingly distressing.

I wonder if maybe you skip this family meal, as it sounds like it might be a bit stressful/tense if you and your DH are already disagreeing about the toy.

Maybe instead focus on eating out with you and your DH to help get your DS more used to eating out and different environment?

Then, when you feel more confident, you’ll be able to go to the next family meal?

It just sounds like something that will be quite stressful (the “what if” worries alone!) and that won’t be a great atmosphere for your DS.

Perhaps read the thread to see why it isn’t that simple

Allowing children be noisy in restaurants isn't how they learn to conform and cope and be quiet in restaurants as they get older.

You take your child to a restaurant when they are old enough to understand that they need to be quiet and are developmentally able to be quiet. For some that might be when they are 2 and others when they are 17.

You either find a way of helping your child to conform without annoying other diners or don't take him.

I have 2 ASD kids myself so I know what it's like. Can you tape the back up so it's as quiet as it can be? We've done that for plenty of our kids toys before.

And if the toy is triggering for other SN children? The expectation of a restaurant being without sudden noises is for everyone’s benefit.

It sounds like you're trying to train him not to act autistic rather than helping him to accept himself as he is. You can take him out for a meal as long as he has a toy which enables him to completely disassociate from what is going on around him or you could just not force him into situations which are extremely emotionally distressing for him. He doesn't need to be taught to lead a "normal life" he needs to be able to find the things in life that make him feel happy and safe.

You're right that it does have to be a 'balance' but at the moment that balance isn't even nearly close. Non/minimally verbal autistic children with learning disabilities (who often rely on these sorts of toys / make lots of stim noise etc - although OP hasn't clarified if this need profile reflects her son), often struggle to access anywhere at all. I appreciate that some non-learning disabled ND people are also effectively house bound but it is much rarer.

The vast majority of ND people without an LD can access quiet hours, wear loops, build in sensory supports and time at home in a dark room to come down from overstimulation. With my children we need to think about places that are not too loud but where it is acceptable to stim, disabled / changing places toilets as they are doubly incontinent, places where they couldn't run into a road. There are long months where we can't go out at all because they will throw everything (e.g. glasses, stuff in supermarkets) or try to launch themselves into ponds. Then we risk assess when they haven't done it for several months and try lower risk options. No one can babysit them and many, many more needs which often mean we can't even go to 'SEN' sessions at soft plays etc (which appear to mostly be full of ND children who only need quieter spaces).

There's a massive spectrum of need, but in my personal and professional experience the 'balance' of accommodations in public places is heavily tipped towards ND people with fewer support needs, because of course it is, the accommodations are generally easier to make! However, severely disabled people still have a right to access the public, particularly as they might do it so infrequently.

Taking toys or iPads is fine if they need them but noisy ones are not ok.

And having a meltdown is fine as it can’t be helped.

There is making allowances and then there is ignoring everyone else’s needs just for one person.

E.g. If a child needs an iPad then that’s fine but they should have it on silent or wear headphones.

No one is saying that they can’t have allowances but there are still rules and manners that need to be followed.

Let DH come up with a solution - and remind him the plan is his.

The noisy game would be very annoying to others and I would hate having to keep explaining why I was letting him play with it. Is there really no other way to keep him calm? Maybe a new toy with flashing lights but no sound? How does he cope at school?

Have you tried bone-conducting headphones, that don’t go over the ears?

I get your point but it’s different for everyone. I work full time so can’t always access the quiet hours.

I accept that I can’t do most things and when I do have to, I dose myself up with diazepam and hope for the best. Of course the diazepam contraindicates the ADHD meds, which is somewhat annoying!

You are prepared to take the toy to calm your son, seeing it as the least disruptive.

Your husband wants to not take the toy, and has no plan to minimise disruption.

I would hand him the toy, then ensure he was sitting next to DS and I was at the other end of the table. It would be DH's choice whether to give DS the toy or not.

And? He clearly has higher needs. How does an adult who doesn’t want to see some small flashy lights on a toy, trump a child with additional needs? If you want a peaceful dining experience go to a non family restaurant.

This is tricky. I’d much rather listen to the toy than screaming if that’s the only options. Listening to a distressed child is never fun. However, taking an autistic child into situations like this where they feel overstimulated/ overwhelmed etc is not always the best idea. Sometimes avoiding these types of places until better coping mechanisms are learnt when they’re older is the best thing. I refused to give my kids anything more than paper and crayons when out for meals. My youngest was hard work and struggled with sitting quietly and so we avoided these situations in most cases, but any time we did go out for meals I would be fully prepared to leave the meal for the sake of other diners. He is much much better now and we can take him anywhere and so we can go out for meals again. But for many years there was a small handful of times we’d go out for meals and I’d quite often end up taking him for a walk outside so everyone else (family with us and other diners) could enjoy their meals in peace and quiet.

How do you know his needs are higher? Others in the restaurant may have higher needs

If you cba to read the whole thread then you clearly don’t realise it’s not about not wanting to see the toy 🙄