Labour Isn't Working - Thread 30

[WaffleBomb]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5506586-labour-isnt-working-thread-29?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Labour have had a loss of 75% in local by-elections, extrapolated out to their 2000+ seats will really be something.

The Greens will crash and fracture. It's a matter of time.

They are a very loose assembly of groups with completely different backgrounds and ideas.

They are floating 4900 councillors and some forecasters are predicting that they will walk away with just 657 seats. 75% would be a great day for them.

Heidi Alexander talking about 'British values'.

She'd be slaughtered by the Left here on MN.

Also referred to as a ‘dog whistle’ by at least one of her colleagues…

😁 Don't know why I wrote that in such a spiky tone. Clearly need to have a cup of tea and put my phone down for a bit.

I just meant that there's so little support for them. The big story will be how few of their seats they held on to but I'm kind of shocked at how thoroughly they are rejected across the board.

I’m not sure that’s right. Labour have about 2500 defending councillors out of a total of about 5000.

I do agree that losing 75% of those presently held by Labour (1875) would be an absolute disaster.

But I still think Wales is the big one.

I don't think I phrased it very well at all. I'll be reduced to clicks and whistles by Thursday.

They are defending 2557 seats, and some forecasters are suggesting they may lose 1800-2000 of those.

There’s also a sense - and I’m not just going by unrepresentative MN - that Reform does scare a lot of people and the anti-Reform vote may be strong, and decisive in pockets. A few Labour councillors will hold on where it’s a more or less straight Labour-Reform fight, IMO.

Sadly, I suspect the Tories’ night will be bruising too. But not so bad that it will cause any ructions. The best Tory plan is to sit tight.

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood you.

We agree! 👍

i think the impact is not just the number of potential losses for Labour but the areas where they are going to lose them. London plus traditional Labour heartlands. They are no doubt glad in several of the latter it’s only 1/3 of seats up for election.

I am dubious about the subjective evaluations on that chart. Labour at 900 seats when the dust settles is just as disastrous as 600.

And if you factor in Scotland, and especially Wales, I think Labour disaster could be at a higher point than that for English seats.

Those figures are more how the results would look against those expected relative to polling, rather than the expected mood. I swiped it from Luke Tryl who was making that same point as you- but relative to Reform seats and how it's hard to imagine 1400 seats as a bad news day.

I share the views well articulated by those on the thread on Polanski. What is also clear is that much of the Corbynite / Momentum end of Labour have gravitated to the Greens, taken over the Greens is probably a more apt description. Polanski is utterly odious however not sure he is the real “brains”.

Talking of Corbynites worth also remembering that Angela Rayner’s partner is Sam Tarry.

Yes. Which leaves an interesting group of left-wing but loyal Labour voters and activists who are in a quandary. Do they really fear Reform enough to vote Green and help lose Labour representation to a Green? If the Greens do exceptionally well this week and Reform stumble, the Labour left may be complicit in killing off Labour.

That does depend on the caravan of loonies and antisemites that are the Greens not blowing up before the next GE, of course.

Im equally terrified of the prospect of the green party getting anywhere near power, so much so i would vote Labour if it was the only way of stopping the greens.

I'm hoping that the general public get wise to them and/or the party falls apart before any GE. The greens as it is is a coalition of people with very different views on key issues some of those differences are unresolvable.

@Upstartled "I'll be reduced to clicks and whistles by Thursday."

i'll be a bunch of emojis 😂 special 😚😚 for the accidental kisser on here, I've actually forgotten who that was because my brain isn't working well this morning. I need more coffee.

With regards to the Greens being a collection of rag tag groups, I think in terms of local elections, that happened in America and the equivalent groups ended up with a good number of votes.

Also remember the shy Tory thing of a few years back? I now wonder if the people who think Labour are doing just fine are keeping quiet.

Basically, it's not over till it's over. I wouldn't make any assumptions at this point. I'm braced for a rise in Green party votes. We're looking at several years of university influence for a lot of voters now.

Wales is the big one. The comments when Labour or plaid put up a Facebook post are scornful of both. Very few defending responses from labour and accusations that Plaid are extreme labour wrapped in the Welsh flag. All the pro immigration from labour, plaid and the greens is not going down well.

I watched a Dutch protest that took place yesterday, so much anger against integration. Ditto in Ireland. A tourist had her throat cut in Madrid yesterday. A man was stopped from climbing over the 6 ft fence at a primary school this week armed with a knife in London.

Are they really all mental health cases?

Polanski evidently doesn’t know when he’s beat. Will be interesting to see Starmer’s response.

Zack Polanski has accused the head of the Met Police of meddling in the local elections by criticising his response to the Golders Green attack.

Mr Polanski reignited his row with Sir Mark Rowley, who issued an open letter last week condemning the Green Party leader for criticising the police officers who apprehended a suspected anti-Semitic terror attacker in London.

Essa Suleiman, 45, who arrived in the UK as a child, was arrested on Wednesday after two Jewish men were stabbed in north London.

On Sunday, Mr Polanski suggested Sir Mark should not have spoken out before Thursday’s elections, during which the Greens are set to make significant gains.

No.

Part of voting for Labour is proclaiming to the world and their dog that you will do it, have done it and will never even consider voting for anyone else.

Because you are virtue signalling.

Virtue signalling or already supported 100% by the state?

Both I suppose?

I don't know, but it seems to be hugely, and lethally, prevalent all over Europe just now.

I have various theories - that certain countries are sending their most troublesome in the West's direction, or that people are fleeing justice of their own volition. Seen plenty of talk about Putin deliberately sending criminals Europe's way.
Then there's perhaps cultural differences, where the only way British or European justice systems can explain certain crimes and behaviours is through mental illness.
Conveniently, this model also centers the criminal, and the victim becomes somewhat irrelevant.

I couuld go on but I'll stop now.

I got that a lot when I was living in London

Out here in Essex, less of it, thank goodness.

actually much less - I'm never quite sure what's going on because I live such a quiet life now - but I feel so much more comfortable over here. There's a vibe. I really hope it stays nice out here. God knows the powers that be are doing everything to change it.