Labour Isn't Working - Thread 30

[WaffleBomb]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5506586-labour-isnt-working-thread-29?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Thanks Kerry.

The left has always been nauseatingly hypocritical about everything. Approval of political violence is just one aspect of it. If you go back far enough you find left wingers who thought the USSR’s and China’s and Cambodia’s etc etc oppression and killings were all justified. Some of those weirdos are still around.

And the ‘we are against violence and the use of force (until it suits us to support them)’ mindset is as alive as ever on the left.

The right has plenty of double standards and inconsistencies. But right wingers don’t pretend to be virtuous as the left do.

On a non-violent level, but one of standards, this government is more hypocritical than any in this country’s history. It’s a revolting sight.

Interesting article the bit about it being kicked down the road till after the elections. I wondered why that hadn't been done.

Arson is such a wicked crime the punishment used to be severe. It's not these days unfortunately.

I don't think I realised the full extent the left was capable of twisting itself into ridiculous knots until listening to Judith Butler describe the mass rape of Israeli women as a kind of discursive and legitimate resistance and the sheer number of nodding dogs who approved of that as a feminist position. Complete, untrustworthy, wankers.

Im sure I was introduced to JB 25 odd years ago at university alongside some other critical theory type stuff.

When I hear the kind of stuff now I think what. It was actually way better then in terms of theory iirc

There's two types of arson in the relevant Act, one where life is endangered and one where it isn't. Where life is endangered, the maximum sentence is life imprisonment.

Yes, she wrote gender trouble in the 90s. I read it thinking it was a savage ironic critique of post modern theory until I got half way through and realised she wasn't joking!

I was up to my eyeballs in French deconstructionism (in English not French) and can’t recall her stuff particularly.

I do think ‘progressive’ theory starts to get regressive for women, and we’re here now with a lot of this stuff in theory and politics.

Yes, agreed. It's really frustrating.

I know, they set fire to a home with people inside.

We lost a mother and five children to a letterbox arson attack some years ago.

We have arsonists that set fire to our hills and mountains risking animals and humans.

We have eejit tourists who light disposable BBQs in forests when having a picnic

So sometimes it's okay to rape women. Jesus Christ

@DenizenOfAisleOfShame well it's a means to an end isn't it . Worth killing millions if we achieve utopia.

Oh just saw the Marathon results, historic under two hours. Remarkable

That's incredible

How can anyone - even those who are economically socialist - possibly still believe that the Left are the 'Good Guys'?!?

Again and again, they proudly declare their desire for bad, violent things to happen to the people they don't like.

But the recent revelations about the Attorney General pursuing a made-up witch hunt against UK soldiers, seemingly knowing that it was likely to be untrue... and that Starmer also worked pro bond against the UK government and soldiers.

www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/a424f7b13196506d
www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/efb0c2b1b8bde2ed

Self-righteous lawyers using the cover of human rights for their own financial gain and ideological crusade, and using human rights lawfare to ruin the lives of brave and honourable soldiers who risked everything in war to defend us. It is so unspeakably depraved, it sickens me to my stomach.

I'm not sure where the UK can go from here, how things get better: the rot is so embedded.

@strawberrybubblegum yes and that gives me a nice segue as I think the embedded rot might have something to do with this Birmingham Council case

@CandidLurker Thank you

It looks as if I have understood it correctly but I’m horrified by it so I thought I must’ve misunderstood!

It’s like there’s a data monster out there that’s just spitting out the word “inequality” for every single situation, and you’ve got to ask the question, who benefits? Well, I suppose we know the answer to that now. But I don’t know how we stop the juggernaut. I gather this has been properly discussed on Reddit and a lot of people there don’t agree with it either. I don’t look at Reddit very often though. The layout scrambles my head.

I suppose it depends how you feel about so-called structural inequality. To me it looks like - some people got paid bonuses for doing certain things - others did not. Maybe that was something that needed to be corrected, maybe not. Having numerous court cases so every single person can take advantage doesn't seem like a great idea.

As I've said before, I don't like commenting on things unless I have some detail. Over the years, I have vaguely heard about the Birmingham situation but I didn't actually look at it. Now that I've looked at it, I'm really horrified that this is such a long ongoing case all pinned on so-called structural inequality.

I still feel as if I must've missed something. Considering I haven't read all of the papers presented in court, I probably have.

i'm beginning to understand why people dislike unions so much - and that's really sad because previously I would have expressed surprise that more people don't join them. I suppose it it's great if you have a specific case that you need addressed, but I'd have to see more information before being convinced by the legitimacy of this.

Makes you consider voting Reform. They are the only party with the confidence/brass neck to outright say, no we don’t agree with this, and we don’t care if you think we are beyond the pale.

They both owe the veterans a public apology.

@SapphireCasino I think Birmingham did not pay women for equally skilled jobs. They found ways to increase men’s pay in various different ways via bonus schemes etc. Anyone could see this was going to end up in a legal challenge but not Birmingham council which allowed the situation to go on for years. I think they then tried to reduce the pay of the bin men which obviously didn’t go down well. This is what happens when you let these sort of problems drift on for years. It it begs the question what the hell were HR and EDI doing

@CandidLurker so that explanation is a bit different from what I've got

My understanding was that jobs that are more likely to be female dominated were paid less than jobs that are more likely to be male dominated, and the male dominated jobs got bonuses. There's nothing actually stopping a woman doing the jobs that got the bonuses so I didn't see how it could be seen as inequality

You have explained it differently. Do you mean that they actually looked at ways to increase the pay of male dominated jobs, purely on the basis that the majority there were men?

I don't know what HR were doing but EDI shouldn't really exist IMHO. Sorry about the three acronyms in one sentence 😂

And what sentences did they get?

@Pacificsunshine I can't imagine I'd ever vote Reform - they'd have to prove themselves before I did it if that makes any sense

but my ex has actually joined as a member. It's interesting - he's gone from describing himself as centrist six months ago and now this. He lives in London and he said to me that he can either complain about it or at least try and do something about it - and he felt that he aligns most with them. Also, he has that feeling that something drastic needs to change. I'm trying to keep out of his way so I didn't explain my concerns to him. I have no issue with it. He's entitled to vote how he wants. But I do have some concerns.

I think he knows that there is no chance of them getting in, certainly not in his constituency. It's quite full on for him to actually have joined a political party to be honest. As you probably know, he's a lot younger than me and he's also alarmed by the rise in support for the Greens within his age group.

I really love Kemi and plan to vote Conservative. I do think we have backed ourselves into some difficult corners. Corners that are awkward to get out of.

I think it would help a lot if she distanced herself from Boris Johnson's time in office

I'm assuming there's all sorts of etiquette issues with that, and possibly some donor issues.

The party as a whole needs to distance themselves though, so surely someone else can say it?

In other news, oh my God, the Trump conspiracies on here! I wasn't around today so I'm just catching up with what crazy stuff is being said

there's a lot of TDS around here.

What's TDS. Haven't seen any conspiracy theories, I'll have a nosey