Why do men like this woman so much and women don't?

[Pjy]

I'm interested from a kind of study of the human condition pov, it's interesting to see the different ways people respond.

She's a woman I know through a sport. She's pretty good, but not outstanding. Works hard and deserves what she achieves. She's friendly and sociable, can perhaps be a bit opinionated, but nothing extreme, much less so than some men! She's "ordinary" to look at. Not unattractive, maybe a bit plain and doesn't seem particularly interested in her appearance (a good thing in my book). She's clean and presentable, but not glamorous or interested in clothes and makeup, not the obvious type to gain male attention iyswim.

She's very popular with men. I'm not saying the fancy her (maybe they do, I don't know), but they seem to enjoy being around her, respect her ability and training in a way they don't other, sometimes more successful, women.

Women, including me, just find something a bit off about her. I can't put my finger on it, I don't dislike her, but she's not someone I want to be friends with. Some of the other women really dislike her, but also can't really explain it.

Is it as straightforward as a bit of jealousy, or something else?

Why didn't you say this in your original post? Why are you saying it now, eh?

I remember a quote on here a while ago, something like "Men can be a bit mysoginistic but only a woman can really do it properly"...

Does she treat friendships the way most men treat friendships?

From a male perspective, most of the women I know who get on better with men than women do so because they make conversation like men do.

I'm going to generalise massively here, but most men tend to talk about stuff, whereas women talk about people. Men talk about their interests, sport, TV, trains, sci fi, books, the specs of their new camera etc. Women talk about their family, their friends, their kids, their parents health, you'll never guess who I saw in the supermarket last week etc.

I went down the pub with a male friend a couple of months back. DP dropped me at his beforehand, and popped in to see his wife.

At the end of the night, I had no idea that my mates Dad had fallen and broken his hip a month prior. DP knew though. I on the other hand knew the make, model and year of my friends wifes new car, along with the saga of the funny noise it was making. DP had of course, not heard this news.

So women who get on with men tend to be the ones who enjoy talking about stuff rather than people. And I think a lot of women struggle to become friends with them, because they find them a bit surface level.

It works the other way as well. I have a cousin who will always be found chatting to the women, and it's because he wants to talk about people, rather than stuff.

Your post reeks of misogyny, have you actually ever interacted with women past teenagehood? You sound like any "evolutionary biologist" from the early 2000s whose theories have been debunked. I could give you a pass because you are autistic and perhaps the clues to social interactions and the politics of power elude you somewhat. From what you've written I would be tempted to deduce that men are stupid, without any finesse or psychological nuances - would that be fair?

Because, I've just looked through the posts now.

Sounds to me like the men have just discovered admiration and the ability to appreciate a woman for something other than her looks, tbh.

They still have to comment on her looks (by observing that she's 'plain') because thats the 'social code' but they recognise her skill in the sport. And sport is important to a lot of men, I'm led to believe.

Maybe some of the women feel uncomfortable because this woman has been 'noticed' by the men when she doesn't seem to be doing anything to particulalrly or intentionally elicit that attention.

I have to say, I know a lot of women who are noticed and recognised by men and women for their achievements and skills/expertise and other women don't see to have a problem with it. It does seem like an odd thing to be curious about to me.

What's the sport?

I can’t believe we’re coming up to nearly 200 posts dissecting some poor woman based on a borderline bitchy vague-post.

Should Mumsnet not take this down?

I would say she is probably confident and literally has no dramas and she isn't that bothered how she comes across she is being her Authentic self and sometimes this can make other woman uncomfortable regardless if she is plain or all dressed to the nines other woman if they have hangups it can make them feel uncomfortable!
Being Authentic is actually a nice trait to have your being yourself !

I feel a bit sorry for this woman.

Interestingly down my rowing club a ridiculous number of couples have met and gone on to get married/LTR. We are on the whole a fairly dishevelled bunch, always in sweaty lycra or training kit, blisters, rigger cuts and bruises, no make up, weird tan lines in summer, musclular legs etc. There is a nice nobody gives a shit vibe, people dont care that women have no make up on have their hair tied back because it is 6am in the morning and you are there to train and get ready for competition. We all cheer each other on through the good times and tough times and you see up close the emotioal rollercoaster that the sport demands. I think the rawness of it all allows you to see people in their most natural, and dare I say attractive state. I also think a woman who does not giving a flying fuck what others think is a particularly attractive.

I think this is a great observation!

My theory is that humans feel uncomfortable around people who are totally confident in their own skin and who can be their true selves without performing gender stereotypes or performing other social norms that people expect, and some people seem to feel uncomfortable or think there’s something b “slightly off” when they encounter people who seem very confident with being average.

It’s not always consciously and I think that’s maybe why everyone at ops hobby seeks to need to think, speak and comment about this woman “all the time”

The men mentioning this one persons looks every time they speak about her for example when they don’t about the rest of the women, tells me, they’re used to only being friendly and saying nice things about women they want to fuck. Even if they don’t recognise that in themselves.

Then the women who are not used to hearing the men in their sports group speak about a female peer so frequently and then also hearing the added negative comments “not much to look at” about a woman’s appearance possibly triggers something subconsciously in them and they’re are also thrown off to see so many men acting so differently around a woman they see as plain, and as much as all the women will say they’re not jealous, social conditioning is more complex than and due to it being a sport, there’s already a competitive element there,

It’s probably a subconscious mix in both the men and women of feeling threatened, jealous and suspicious, it sounds like the women are trying to work out on some level why they don’t like her, while the men are trying work to work why do. Some people only expect confidence if the physical appearance matches what they think a confident woman should look like and when it doesn’t align, it bamboozels them.

Obviously it’s deeper and more naunced and complex. But generally speaking.

Is she one of those women who value men more than other women, their company, their friendship, their opinion? That can be very wearing.

Does she treat the women around her differently to how she treats the men?

Exactly this. Women don’t tend to like women that men like. It’s just biology.

I’m one of those women who naturally gets on better with men and I know other women don’t like me for it. It’s not attention seeking - I genuinely prefer their company because I find (most) women a bit more boring and prefer the topics of conversation men gravitate towards.

I know this limits my appeal with women.

That sounds like all my women friends. The first sentence, that is.

Women, including me, just find something a bit off about her. I can't put my finger on it, I don't dislike her, but she's not someone I want to be friends with. Some of the other women really dislike her, but also can't really explain it.

If YOU don't know why you're not keen on her, what hope do a bunch of randos on the internets have?

Know thyself, OP.

Thanks for asking that question, I was wondering as well. I played sports for over 40 years and I never once heard any of the blokes say of a girl/woman "she is plain" or "she isn't much to look at". I played county league badminton and everyone was very fit and a lot of my mixed doubles partners were very attractive, confident and intelligent.

All of you sound like utter twats, to be honest. You sound like you think she’s not attractive enough to get any attention and you’re envious of her and wondering where you are going wrong as you place all of female value on looks and the male gaze.

The men sound awful, I have no idea why the sentence ‘’Jane played well today’’ had to include, ‘’not much to look at’’ when looks have nothing to do with talent and women don’t exist to please men. I wouldn’t be at all jealous of someone else getting attention from these pigs.

It sounds like they see her as more like them, to answer your question. I’d bet you fancy one of them that talks to Jane 😂

From what you've said it's this woman's own "internalized misogyny" to which you and the other women are responding.
I say this because of what you've said about how she tends to nitpick with other women in chats, but tends to 'let things fly' with the men!

That's what the men like.
It would really grate on me too if I was a woman in the sports group.

Because, of course, the only reason a man might possibly like a woman is if he thinks she's sexy.

FFS.

I would imagine it is something in the way she communicates and interacts. Something that is perhaps more masculine but seems incongruous in a woman. Men probably don’t notice but women notice the subtle differences and find it odd.

I have know a few women like this over the years and sometimes you can’t put your finger on it but there is something a little masculine in interactions.

It is not borderline!! Reeks of jealousy to me. Sad

Agree. OP's 13:15 update was illuminating; it's a pity few other PPs have seen it.

I don't find this subject boring! I'm always interested in how people work (female-coded interest, see). There have been some thoughtful replies, alongside all the predictable ones.

From your original post I'd rather hang out with her than the people who talk about her behind her back.

Perhaps that's all you and your other friends are picking up on?