Why do men like this woman so much and women don't?

[Pjy]

I'm interested from a kind of study of the human condition pov, it's interesting to see the different ways people respond.

She's a woman I know through a sport. She's pretty good, but not outstanding. Works hard and deserves what she achieves. She's friendly and sociable, can perhaps be a bit opinionated, but nothing extreme, much less so than some men! She's "ordinary" to look at. Not unattractive, maybe a bit plain and doesn't seem particularly interested in her appearance (a good thing in my book). She's clean and presentable, but not glamorous or interested in clothes and makeup, not the obvious type to gain male attention iyswim.

She's very popular with men. I'm not saying the fancy her (maybe they do, I don't know), but they seem to enjoy being around her, respect her ability and training in a way they don't other, sometimes more successful, women.

Women, including me, just find something a bit off about her. I can't put my finger on it, I don't dislike her, but she's not someone I want to be friends with. Some of the other women really dislike her, but also can't really explain it.

Is it as straightforward as a bit of jealousy, or something else?

Well, she hangs out with the male people who talk behind her back, so ...

Sounds like the men like her because she is exactly as she is described on the box. She is who she is and is unashamed of it. Doesn’t feel the need to bend to peer pressure of makeup and designed clothes. She is just who she is. Nothing is hidden or disguised. Nothing is fake. She just wants to turn up, do her sport, be good at it and go home. What she looks like when doing that is irrelevant to her.

And good for her. She sounds like my kinda gal!

Meh, I read it, I didn't buy it, it felt to me like a late in the day justification when people were pointing out how bitchy it all seemed.

It's amazing how much "internalised misogyny" is used to shut down other women right now. Ironic...

They didn't appear to be the ones bitching about her... yet this woman seems obsessed. I wonder who brought her up in conversation?

You lost me at ‘plain’. What a horrible way to describe people, I thought it had fallen out of fashion years ago.

Nobody on here knows her so it’s impossible to answer but given the women don’t like her, and I’m sure she’s aware, then why does it matter? You all sound like schoolchildren tbh.

So surely you’ve answered your own question? Was it really worth this much pondering?

This doesn't explain why the women would find her off-putting. Most people like uncomplicated team players.

Yes I hear you. Also AuDHD and have had a hard time from groups of women all my life.

Perhaps the men can see her personality instead of calling her plain and every other thing. It’s almost like good looks aren’t the only attractive thing about a person…

Well, the OP said in one of her updates that this woman tends to correct women disproportionately on minor matters (and not men), so presumably that explains her lack of popularity among them?

Based on this, it sounds like it's quite simple on the face of it - she's pernickety and prickly towards the women so of course they find her off-putting, and panders to the men, hence why they like her. It's not uncommon for women to do that, sadly.

But the men going on about how she's not attractive is still super gross - and I bet few of the single ones would actually turn her down, despite what they say.

Really? The few people in this world that I care about aren’t particularly uncomplicated.

And regarding OP’s post at 13.15, perhaps she corrects the women more because they are wrong more? Or perhaps she knows how you all talk about her behind her back. Perhaps she feels judged.

There is no need to deify this woman, nor is there any need to demonise the OP. This woman probably farts and burps, which some men find relatable and unthreatening. Who cares? This is a nothing burger.

Or maybe she hasn’t had the memo that you must adhere to the ‘sisterhood’ code by never correcting or criticising anyone unless it is the group’s opinion.

Good lord.

Stop obsessing over this poor woman and take a long hard look at yourself.

What's missing from your life that you're doing this? 😳

Not reading the full thread, but the first few pages sound as if men like women who are confident in their own skin, share their interests, are straight talking and don't bitch about other women behind their backs.

It's hard to say without more information @Pjy perhaps the fact that you can't give anything else for anyone to go off suggests that you're not close enough to where the magic happens - if you share the same physical conversation space perhaps you'd pick up on what is going on. You mentioned only aesthetic things as though the answer as to why men seem to warm to her but this overlooks many things that might matter - self confidence, sense of humour, banter, laughs easily, positivity, self deprecation, humility, good listening skills, a good memory for weaving back in details from previous conversations (people like to be seen and heard... and remembered) - I'd guess the answer lies in the dynamics of the way she interacts with people not in the external, static, observable, measurable domain. Get close - maybe you'll learn something if you're really that interested.

Speaking as a man (and going very broad brush), men don't need constant contact in their friendships with other men.
My three oldest/closet friends live miles away from where I do now and apart from the odd text/whatsapp hardly stay in contact for months.
However, when we do meet up (and yes it's usually in the pub) the conversation starts up as though we'd seen each other the day before.

I'm more interested in why the men would say something so demeaning about Jane.

You’re getting a hard time here OP but I think you’ve nailed it yourself.

Ironically, it sounds as if maybe this woman is a bit of a misogynist herself, correcting women and not men. I know plenty of women with internalised misogyny, albeit unconscious. We’re bombarded with societal messages of misogyny from a young age so it’s hardly surprising when some of it sticks.

I don’t judge you for posting. I also find the subject of friendships interesting but puzzling at times. I love the way the human mind works. I also think it’s helpful to play devil’s advocate with yourself to see if there’s some unconscious bias at play.

I think you’ve maybe had to include things in your post for the sake of completeness that sound a bit off, which is why you’ve gotten so many hostile responses.

I wonder whether the men feel they have to justify why they are paying her a compliment, for fear of being thought of as being attracted to her? Hence the qualifying statements about her looks?

Does this woman seem to seek out friendships with anyone OP? Or is she just a bit detached from everyone albeit friendly enough while playing the sport?

How do you feel now you think you’ve pinpointed the reason why you don’t especially like her? Do you feel relieved to have figured it out? Is there any chance that she’s responding in kind - are the women harsher with her than the men?

This sounds totally made up. In what world would grown men describe another woman, to you, as “plain”? Men just don’t talk that way. In fact nobody does !

I agree. All the comments seem to assume she’s confident when there’s nothing specifically to suggest she’s any more confident than the next person, or that she has some magical ability to talk about things men like to talk about, unlike other women, who couldn’t possibly muster up a conversation with their pea brain who, gasp, enjoy make-up or something.

Weird all around.

…I’ve heard men and women describe both other men and women as plain, or average. I wouldn’t think it’s some massive insult, either.

Really? In casual conversation? How unpleasant. Certain doesn’t sound very British. Usually people aren’t that obvious.

Well that's such patent bollocks I wouldn't give it any further headspace.

Seems you've cracked it, OP. At least you know now what it is, I guess. Actually what I find more depressing is that this is apparently what it takes to get a lot of men onside, so to speak. If she were very beautiful or brilliant at her sport it would be more obvious but this is more insidious and taps into something more unpleasant than "they just fancy her or admire her skill". I wouldn't be especially bothered by a man admiring a woman's beauty or sporting talent but I'd be very uneasy with him admiring her putting women down and not men, even if he didn't realise he was doing it. Especially since it's obviously having an effect if the mentionitis is anything to go by.

A certain type of man does. I've heard it. Sometimes they were trying to hit on me by suggesting some other woman was plain and I'm not (I am, but a man who's trying to make a pass at me is unlikely to say it while he tries to pit us against each other) and sometimes it's just because he's so sexist and narcissistic, it doesn't occur to him that nobody cares about his evaluation of some woman's fuckability and it isn't important.

They do exist.