My parents are sleeping in chairs in the living room

[Pigeonangel]

And I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

I live very close and visit often. Always have done, am happy to. They're good company and have been fantastic parents and grandparents. When DH was terminally ill, and subsequently died, I honestly don't know how I'd have got through it without them.

That was only 5 years ago, they were there constantly for all of us, helping with house and car repairs, running errands etc. Until they hit 80 they were amazing sprightly older people who could do anything - furious at the suggestion they might be "vulnerable" during lockdown 🤣

How things change. In a matter of months they've both had health issues that mean their mobility is badly affected. Until recently it always seemed to be worse for one at a time and they're a great team so got by supporting each other, without asking or wanting much from me.

Now Mum can shuffle a bit with a frame and Dad is unable to walk at all. Last night they both slept in chairs downstairs. Mum suffles about to get food, do some cleaning and bring him a bed bottle etc. She managed to do a roast dinner for them both at the weekend, although I can't believe for a minute that would have been safe.

Mentally they are both totally with it, the house is perfectly livable (ie not dirty, if not practical), they seem OK from a personal hygiene pov, and are insisting they don't need anything from me or social services, they slept well last night and can manage.

Am I supposed to just leave it at that? I'm feeling very overwhelmed. It's just me with DH gone, my DC live away and DSis is also several 100 miles away but has lots of opinions on how Mum and Dad should behave.

I don't know what to do.

I’m an adults social worker. I think a OT referral will really help them. They want to maintain their independence and to be fair they are doing amazing. There are props and aids for the kitchen that can really help. Things for their home that will also help them maintain their independence for as long as possible. This is how I would be framing this to them. And maybe explain if they had a broken leg they would use crutches etc, they wouldn’t say well it doesn’t matter for now. This doesn’t have to be long term and if the situation changes they can be put away for future years. Also where I work we have a short term enablement service which is for situations like this. They may find this to intrusive though, based on the information you have given. Let me know if there is anything else you need help with. And if you haven’t done this already I would suggest broaching power of attorney for health and welfare and finance and property.

you can get things like a commode chair, bed rails they can pull themselves up with, chair raisers that go under to raise the whole chair up and make it easter to rise etc., bathing chairs, mini ramps, railings etc from the council OT dept. They come and assess.

you said they have money. They could also buy a stairlift. that could solve a few problems.

they are clearly struggling and nobody wants strangers in the house and modifications but if it lets them stay in their own home longer…

the other option could be to move to a more suitable property.

Sorry you are going through this. If your dad can't walk at all then this really needs investigating and aids put in place. If he gets pressure sores by sleeping in a chair and not being able to move himself then that is serious stuff. he needs things like a pressure cushion, commode etc. Someone needs to be checking skin regularly and making sure he can keep himself clean. I can only re-iterate what so many others have said. Adult social care referral and assessment, OT assessment and carers before something serious / crisis happens.

Not the point of the post but these are good when you don't want them lifting the kettle to pour https://www.amazon.co.uk/Breville-HotCup-Water-Dispenser-Litre/dp/B001L5SSGQ/ref=asc_df_B001L5SSGQ?mcid=09e6ac41a9793d8db1c0a983d72b3457&th=1&psc=1&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697351580306&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16312937969116136466&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007374&hvtargid=pla-385930872950&psc=1&hvocijid=16312937969116136466-B001L5SSGQ-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1

You can get perching frame stools for the kitchen which are at work top height.

Best option is to find them safer ways to manage. They'll probably reject them initially but then you'll find them in use

"I think being able to shuffle with a frame is ok? Especially at 80?"

I really would disagree with you here totally.

Most people in their 80s are quite ok with walking about on their own.

However, I do totally take your point where you say:

"their world is shrinking etc"

My dad died at the age of 87 and my mum is currently 86. After my dad retired, they were quite the world travellers for around 10 or 15 years.

But, getting into their 80s, they did stop travelling (I guess that long-haul travel got a bit too much for them).

After that though, their world really did shrink. The only reason they left their home was to go to church on a Sunday or take part in some U3A activities. Or maybe the occasional visit to see family. My dad was also a Clerk to the Governers for three local schools; as a result he had reason to put on a suit and tie and go out a couple of times a month, right up until he died.

But, staying fit in your 80s is about staying active - the old phrase of "use it or lose it" is very true in this situation. Following my dad's death, my mum now does very little indeed and I do worry about her ending up having to "shuffle with a frame".

However, even in your 80s, it's still not too late to start doing some exercise.

For example, there is a Youtube channel I subscribe to where she follows the results of her parents (who are in their 80s) starting out doing strength training for the first time in their 80s. It made really significant differences to their health:

"My Parents' Astounding Results from 1 Year of Strength Training in Their 80s! Rebuilding Mum & Dad"

It sounds like you are a very kind caring child to your parents and also very respectful of them.

I actually think you are doing all you can really, their independence and autonomy is incredibly important to them, and it doesn't sound like there is a question of capacity, so there is no reason not to respect their choices (even if unwise). However, it sound like you may want to think about what behaviours might be crossing or might soon cross in to self neglect (for instance your dad's toilet habits now don't sound susatainable), this website might help (https://safeguarding-guide.nhs.uk/types-of-abuse-exploitation-and-neglect/s3-15/). You might find it helpful to tell your parents in advance if you have concerns where you might need to consider a safeguarding referral for self neglect etc, as it sounds like this might be difficult for them to accept, but telling them earlier and giving them the chance to become a bit more aware of the idea might help.

@TalulahJP @Pigeonangel look at her greet post
There are many gadgets and work around they could have

I mean, we aren't sitting here imagining how your dad is toileting. If you don't spell it out, there's a limit to what people will infer, but they are being helpful so despite your worries, there's no need to be short with posters.

I would absolutely agree with this. The crisis will happen and then they are much more likely to end up with the help they need. You need to resist agreeing to do all the care at that point, otherwise you will find that it is agreed to very quickly. It is so hard standing back and waiting for that to happen.

In the meantime I agree with the suggestion about the elderly parents board (very supportive when I was in a tough place), and look after yourself so you can be there to help when they accept it.

I think its really tricky tbh. If they have capacity then frankly they are free to make their own choices even if their choice is unwise.
Why have they both suddenly started struggling with walking? I would think it was a good idea to get them checked out by the gp, and maybe have a quiet word with them (gp)before hand with your conserns.

Who is the most stubborn? I would approach them separately and say “I’m worried about Mum/Dad and the stairs, can I arrange a downstairs bed for a few weeks and you act like you think it’s a good idea so they are willing to sleep in it? I will organise some easier meals for you both too for a couple of weeks while you are looking after them and we can cancel them when that burden eases” then once it’s in and the easy meals are turning up hopefully they carry on with it because they realise life is more comfortable.

Full sympathy from me. But don’t be/feel overwhelmed. On the contrary, you need to be pin sharp in your day to day observations of your parents. For the moment, I’d maintain a watching brief, but subtly step up your personal support- maybe prepare a meal or give a bit of a tidy up round the place. This might even give you some peace of mind too. Be a nice way to return the unselfish support they gave you when times were tough. If possible, make an appointment with their GP, ostensibly to check progress with their current medical problems and ascertain any potential side effects of their medication, but also to voice your own concerns and seek advice on the way ahead as regards other support that could be available now or in the future. As has already been suggested, start the ball rolling on establishing full Power of Attorney over your parent’s affairs. Shared with your sister if that makes things easier. The realty is that being in their early 80’s and with health worries it’s highly unlikely that either of them is going to bounce back to the active and alert folks they were 5 years ago. Hope these thoughts give you a bit of reassurance and food for thought. Above all - remember that you have life too. Don’t let this situation dominate you.

I would be saying that if social services saw them like this and not trying to help themselves they might be forced to have carers.
So why don’t we make the place more manageable so that if they come to visit they can see that you can cope.

I'm worried about my in-laws, too. We broached the subject of them moving to a house with no stairs (they are currently in a terraced house) but they went extremely rigid and angry and told us to mind our own business.

So, it's very difficult to help older people because they have a right to be old without always being condemned to care. But, we have a responsbility to take care of our parents and ensure they are safe and comfortable.

We even offered for them to live with us etc but they refuse. So, I don't know. Sometimes, I think we project our fears onto them because we care but, in doing so, make things worse than they are. Maybe not. It's hard.

Edited to say: they won't eat protein, the eat carbs, carbs and more carbs and only eat 'protein' wraps or similar. They definitely suffer from sarcpenia and any suggestion of activity, even chair exercises, are dismissed with ridicule. Just another day in the life!

I think you need a social services referral so they can maybe get some adaptations and some practical support like carers preparing meals, helping with bathing etc.. Speak to mum and dad and if they are OK with it, ring up SS and explain the situation. You can do nothing without their permission unless it becomes a safeguarding issue?

An OT appointment makes a fantastic difference. Local Authorities want to help people to stay at home, and will give you support to do it. My mil was really impressed with her visit and subsequent items fitted.

Social services will not 'force' them to have carers; they have no powers like that, and quite likely OP's parents, who sound quite clear-headed, would know that and rightly be insulted.

Agree. If OP's parents don't want support and OP doesn't want to go against their wishes, there's not much that can be said really.

Social worker here! If they have mental capacity the can make unwise decisions. What are the risks? Maybe see if they would consent to a pendent/ lifeline so they can easily contact you if they did fall. I think we have a habit of infantilising the elderly. Talk to them what would they like etc

Get in touch with age uk, they might be able to point you in the right direction. You can inform their GP that you are concerned about their mobility, the GP ‘should’ investigate, or social services. I know I have an elderly mother who lost some mobility & I am ill myself & struggling. If they don’t know they can’t help. You might find they don’t help anyway but worth a punt.

If they have capacity they will know what a load of nonsense threats like this are. They are simply getting older, not losing the ability to think for themselves or be aware of their rights.
Sometimes people treat older adults as if they are all of a sudden not able to think for themselves or have become simple-minded.
I know it usually comes from a place of love and care, and a fear that something bad could happen, but honestly threats like this will never help the situation, all it will do is install fear and distrust
.
People saying threaten them with a care home or social services will force you to have care. This is simply not true, no one can force care on anyone, even where a person loses capacity and there are serious concerns/risk, this can’t be forced without following appropriate laws, which will then usually result in a complex court of protection process.

Who is cleaning their house if they can barely walk OP? Do they have a cleaner?

No practical advice I’m afraid but sending love and strength to you. It’s devastating seeing your parents decline like this, my 87 year old dad has had a very steep decline I. The last 18 months and it’s a worry. Horrible to see such strong people fail and also the frustration for them that ultimately comes with it and manifests into other emotions. It’s also very hard to come to terms with the people that were always there for you are now a shadow of themselves and so vulnerable. So sad. I wish I had some answers x

POA is only if they have lost mental capacity, not simply wanting to do things family don't approve of.

What is his diagnosis if he can't walk?
Neuropathy? Parkinson's?
Hips? = arthritis?

What medical support is he getting?
Have you asked for their GP to do a home visit @Pigeonangel ?

If he wees in a bottle that only solves one toileting issue.
If he can't move at all, he risks bed sores/ chair sores.

Is their GP aware of this and does a community nurse visit?