My parents are sleeping in chairs in the living room

[Pigeonangel]

And I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

I live very close and visit often. Always have done, am happy to. They're good company and have been fantastic parents and grandparents. When DH was terminally ill, and subsequently died, I honestly don't know how I'd have got through it without them.

That was only 5 years ago, they were there constantly for all of us, helping with house and car repairs, running errands etc. Until they hit 80 they were amazing sprightly older people who could do anything - furious at the suggestion they might be "vulnerable" during lockdown 🤣

How things change. In a matter of months they've both had health issues that mean their mobility is badly affected. Until recently it always seemed to be worse for one at a time and they're a great team so got by supporting each other, without asking or wanting much from me.

Now Mum can shuffle a bit with a frame and Dad is unable to walk at all. Last night they both slept in chairs downstairs. Mum suffles about to get food, do some cleaning and bring him a bed bottle etc. She managed to do a roast dinner for them both at the weekend, although I can't believe for a minute that would have been safe.

Mentally they are both totally with it, the house is perfectly livable (ie not dirty, if not practical), they seem OK from a personal hygiene pov, and are insisting they don't need anything from me or social services, they slept well last night and can manage.

Am I supposed to just leave it at that? I'm feeling very overwhelmed. It's just me with DH gone, my DC live away and DSis is also several 100 miles away but has lots of opinions on how Mum and Dad should behave.

I don't know what to do.

These work really well and was an easy win but they do need to be descaled regularly

You are the perfect person to give OP advice.

There are a lot of posters who think that because they say they’re ok, it means they’re coping and it’s cruel to intervene.

But it doesn’t mean they’re coping at all, it usually means they’re really struggling but are too proud/ashamed to admit defeat and ask for help.

Even if OP sells it to them as a temporary measure or to put her own mind at rest ‘whilst she goes away’ or something.

It’s hard for people like OP because you feel like you’re going against their wishes or infantilising them.

Mentally competent = able to accept that they need OT assessment, adaptation of their house for their needs, and any other support that is suggested (cleaners, carers, meals on wheels if it exists, and more).

They must be very worried themselves, so I can't see what harm could come of you contacting the GP to inform them of the rapid decline and current vulnerability.

you can pick up reclining electric armchairs at charity shops in really good condition if that's the road you wanted to go down

Gently, at their age their mobility is unlikely to improve much. You have had some good suggestions here and I was thinking about a frozen meal delivery service maybe? They are much better these days.
I’m sorry this is hard for you … sending a hug x

Have they explained why they suddenly decided to sleep downstairs last night ? Has something changed ? Your Dad not being able to walk at all is a real issue, how long has he been like this ? Could he walk when he last came out of hospital ?

I agree with all of this.

If you have a conversation with them, try to avoid using the phrase 'can't cope'. For some reason, it's perceived as a massive insult to the generation who lived through WW2/ rationing/ shortages. This generation prides itself on 'coping' and feels they are letting the side down abysmally if they can't hack it.

Ask them to envision a life less worrying for everyone who loves them, a life where they will be free to enjoy each other's company without stress or strain or discomfort, and where you will have peace of mind knowing that they are comfortable, looked after properly, and enjoying their golden years.

@Pigeonangel Your main point in your OP was how helpless this situation was making you feel and how to cope.

I realize that all of us throwing suggestions at you is probably making it feel worse and more overwhelming.

I think you need to take one small step at a time, and try to help with one small issue at a time.

Make a big list from all the suggestions here and start with the urgent issues.

So urgent medical and personal care needs first.

You need to have a gentle but comprehensive conversation with them to work out how temporary the mobility issue with your Dad is going to be.

How many days have they been sleeping in the chairs - how many days has it been since your Dad was able to get on a toilet.

He’s obviously been urinating but has he been having bowel movements. If not, then he does need to see the doctor about that.

If he has - how are they managing clean up and changes.

Again - if this has just happened and it’s been one night or so - they might be assuming it’s very temporary.

You need to talk to them about what sort of deadline they think is reasonable for getting the doctor / OT involved. One week in the chairs? Two?

You can point out that the goal is to keep them in their own home and out of hospital and care homes.

Can you even stay over for a couple of nights to get a better picture about what is going on.

I really feel for you, OP. It’s very hard when your parents think they are coping but they aren’t.

I had similar with mine. My parents were hale and hearty until my mum became frail in her 90s. My dad was fine but my mum became frail in her last few months. He was helping her up and down their very steep stairs and it was such a worry. They totally refused any sort of assessment for support. Although they were wealthy, they wouldn’t countenance paying for meal deliveries, carers or help with the gardens or cleaning. So it mostly fell to me and my husband to provide the support they needed.

We did however, persuade them to let us convert their dining room into a bedroom. Once we’d done it, they were very content in there. Luckily, they had a ground floor shower room and wc already. We had LPA in place for medical and financial, but we never needed to use it in the end. Their worst nightmare would’ve been going into care and I’m pleased it never happened.

It’s a difficult time and I empathise.

I would have an honest conversation with them about your worries. There are frailty teams, neighbourhood teams, different social care and GP roles that should be supporting as this sort of things happens (ideally before tbh). They can help with equipment, adaptations, carer support etc. There may also be coluntary sector organisations that can help.

@Pigeonangel Are his knees preventing him from walking?

What sort of thing are you wanting us to suggest, OP? You’re shooting down everyone’s suggestions and in one case, unnecessarily abruptly. I don’t understand what you’re wanting from this thread?

This is incredibly hard on everyone and very common.

My Dad says that realising the baton for competent adults had passed from him and Mum to me and my sister was one of the hardest things for him to come to terms with.

Despite that insight, as he’s aged further we’ve had our moments with him doing downright risky things and risking a fall - madness when his worst fear is going back into hospital. But he doesn’t want to accept that he’ll never be able to do these things again.

I think the best thing for your sister and you is to sit your parents down and ask them what they think the next six months are going to be like. What their priority is and how to achieve that. If it’s dignity without a carer - where can they live to manage that. If it’s staying in their home - what adjustments need to be made. If they stonewall, leave them to talk about it for a week but make it clear peeing in a bottle is not a long term plan.

Sorry I meant a blue badge for parking. I'm going through this with my Mum, I'm sorry if I'm using the wrong terminology.

My mum has dementia and is now bedbound and has been for five years. She was, when capable of it, extremely resistant to any kind of help, carers, outside input and almost anything else you care to name that might have made life more pleasant for her and my dad. Even my dad who is fully compos mentis has at times been very resistant to things that were very obviously a good idea. I am more thankful than I can say that we got POA sorted before things got too bad.

I know you know that you need OT input - they can supply things like commodes and grab rails and hospital beds with pressure care mattresses at no charge to them or you. But one thing I would suggest is that a carer visit to do something they actually like such as cooking a meal may be a way in. We did manage eventually to get my mum to accept someone to come every day and cook lunch and gradually ramped this up. She liked eating so that was our way in. You say they have no problems with money or paying for things themselves so if you can think of one thing they would like someone else to do (is there something you are currently doing, maybe, that you perhaps can't do any more) that might be a way to get them in the system.

I do know how hard this is. I am sorry for you and them. It's tough.

I would say, sleeping in a chair can lead to deterioration very fast. It's incredibly bad for circulation etc. My mum was sleeping sitting up on the sofa for some time and it impacted on her mobility pretty quickly.

You can't tell them what to do but you need to keep telling them what has to change. At some point there will be a crisis and that's when you need to step in with whatever you can sort out for them.

It is also not a bad idea to contact their GP with your concerns. The GP may be able to get them into the system. Once they have official people wanting to come round and look at what is going on it may help break down some of the resistance.

It’sa very hard situation OP. You aren’t alone in this: I’d suggest you head over to Elderly Parents for more support and a bit less uninformed shouting 🙄.

Someone upthread asked if you have POA for them? That’s really important.

i have to say that I would go along with a lot of what my parents want to do that I don’t think is a great idea, but peeing in a bottle is probably over the limit for me. Do they acknowledge how inappropriate this is? I mean I’d find it hard to speak with them and not look / sound horrified about it? How do they react? Do they think it’s normal?

In any case, at some point there will be a crisis - a bad fall, a sudden illness or decline - and that will trigger changes. It’s very hard to stand back and watch this happen, but if they won’t take any advice, you can only do what you can do.

There’s a kettle for people who can’t lift kettles safely, my mother in law has one. I know it’s a small thing but is something.

Would they listen to their GP? Maybe ask for a home visit from the GP to discuss their change in health and mobility problems. Then GP can refer for Physio and OT. If you Sad cannot get up and walk. He will
be at risk of pressure sores. So GP may want community nurse to call in and check. It takes you out of the firing line for suggesting support. Usually using health services is a way in before older people can accept care.

If your Dad is confined to the same chair for the majority of time , there is a very real risk of pressure sores which can be debilitating in themselves. This is what happened to my relative, they were too proud to ask for help, the sore progressed through to the bone. They were in agony but hide it so well. You and your parents have no choice here, you need a referral to OT.

Do you have a power of attorney for them? There are two, health and finance. It sounds as though they are currenty mentally competent but that might not last for a huge length of time. My advice to you is to put it to them that a POA would be a good idea, it doesn’t mean you/ the other people mentioned in it take over decisions while they are still competent , but at some point in the future it will make life easier for you all.

My father was the same. In the end we ordered a bed and put it in the living room. And did the laundry once or twice a week. He used it once there

How is your Father managing to poo?
I can understand your reluctance but something has to change, my mother was in a similar situation a few years ago and my sister and I managed to convince her to move from her terraced house where she was also sleeping in her chair to a flat in a independent living complex.
She is now a different woman ! She’s had a hip replacement and medication to help with spinal fractures, has an adjustable bed and at the age of 84 is probably more mobile than she was 5 or 6 years ago

Adult Services need to do an assessment to see what help they can give to your parents.

I suggest you speak to your parents first, then contact your local authority ( council) and request an assessment for adult services.

Your parents are amazing and I hope ieverything works out well for you and your family.

We had the issue with our DM (DF died 4yrs earlier). Her mobility quickly diminished and as her bathroom.was downstairs it meant getting down during the night was difficult and she had accidents. She would get very upset about thibgs she could no longer do, told us getting old was crap!
We also used the idea of temporarily moving her bed down. She eventually agreed and it became permanent.
We found a tall kitchen chair/stool was a god send so she could sit and wait while the kettle boiled. She had a walker with a tray to put plates /cups etc rather than trying to carry them.
She was fully coherent but decidely stubborn and even when her doctor did a home visit and told her she needed to be in hospital, she said no and there was nothing he could do, thankfully a week later she did agree to go in so she was at least comfortable, pain free in her final weeks x x