A whole civilisation will die tonight.

[todayImstruggling]

Tumps exact words today!

WTAF? That sounds like he is about to drop a Nuke!

How the hell has the world got here?

Trumps truth social posts sounds more like something that a dramatic gleeful tv presenter would say in a game show. Not something a world leader threatening to blow up an entire civilisation.

https://news.sky.com/story/iran-war-latest-trump-tehran-us-israel-kharg-island-netanyahu-lebanon-strikes-drone-live-sky-news-13509565

FFS someone take this lunatic out

I used to see similar.

it stopped once I started taking antipsychotics.

He is insane. Top officials talked him out of doing it. He might not be persuaded next time.

Blame the Israelis for carpet bombing Lebanon. They don't want peace.

An excellent post. Thank you for explaining this to Eastern. Hopefully, she and others will take the time to read your post.
This war was always going to be an utter disaster. With their typical mixture of arrogance and stupidity, the US leadership carried on regardless. I pray for peace for the people of Iran and others in the region.

We did talk about Iranian attacks continuing yesterday. And you did accept it would take time for the message to get through. Iranian comms bombed out and all that. That was within a couple of hours of the deal. The Iranians said it would take an hour to get the message out.

But after that hour was up, Iran kept attacking. And we don't know why. Comms worse than thought? Breakaway factions? Collapse of Iranian command and control? Iran lied? We just don't know yet.

But what we do know is that Israel kept bombing Iran for many more hours. They said to get a final list of targets. To reduce as much Iranian capability as they could before stopping. Israel said that was what they were doing.

We also know for certain now, that Netanyahu had no intention of stopping against Lebanon. In fact, they were increasing attacks.

So was there a gap in Iranian attacks? Between the end of that hour "wind down" and more Iranian attacks? Because it does appear to have switched. From possible wind down to more retaliations. We don't know.

Declaring "hostilities stop now" is a daft way to do it. It should really be a set time. To allow the message to get out and be confirmed. I think that is the usual way. And that is done precisely to avoid this. To avoid retaliations against post cease fire strikes. If Trump had said "it all stops at noon", then it is clear. The way he done it massively increases the chances of it ending up like this. Trump is a fucking idiot.

And the deal? Include Lebanon or not ? FFS they can't even agree what the deal is that they are supposed to have agreed on. Again... Trump is a fucking idiot. .

TBH Twiglets, I am surprised you have not mentioned the Iranian collapse of command and control option as I mentioned above. It was reported that there were protests in Iran against the deal. We don't know if true or not, but that could certainly be an indication of factions developing, and the regimes authority collapsing. Potentially that it is a real "let's hope so" scenario. Then again, civil war and all that.

PS. Profanities are ok now it seems. As we see from Trumps TRUTHS. And I just can't think of a better way of describing Trump. Because He IS a fucking idiot.

Everyone I know was carefully watching Iran's attacks yesterday and trying to optimistically believe that this was simply a result of it taking time for the ceasefire to work its way through as opposed to an indication that the IRGC did not support the ceasefire. I still don't know which it was - practically ceasefires can't be implemented immediately and that should never have been an expectation. It shows what a mess this was - a time and date that the ceasefire was to start should have been agreed formally to avoid this situation.

What we do know for certain is that Israel, which does not have the same issue of destroyed communications and a fragmented military structure, did continue attacks on Iran post the ceasefire, and well past the ceasefire.

We also know that the only neutral party involved in the ceasefire discussions, Pakistan, considered that the ceasefire covered Lebanon and expressly said this. I struggle to believe that the US didn't agree to a ceasefire that covered Lebanon.

Maybe the US thought they had time to sort it out with Israel, maybe they underestimated Israel and thought Israel wouldn't take the type of action they took in Lebanon (even the Lebanese are shocked that Israel struck so hard and in the areas they did), or maybe the US knew exactly what was going to happen but were so desperate for an out that they agreed anyway so they could claim a 'win'. Who knows. What I do know is that what Israel did in Lebanon has made it far far more difficult for any ceasefire to hold, or for there to be a long term agreement. And only one side killed over 250 people in 10 minutes yesterday, a large proportion of which (probably the vast majority) were civilians with no links to Hezbollah.

And because I saw someone else on this thread suggesting something about Iran protecting Lebanon - that's bullshit. Iran doesn't care about Lebanon any more than Israel cares about Lebanon. Iran cares about Hezbollah.

To @EasterParadeHatsnot ‘Eastern’

She is a different poster. Can people tag posters to get it right.

She didn't 'tag' you

Yes that was the reason I said tag instead to avoid getting it wrong as ‘Eastern’

And thanks for your input as per

The hypocrisy is breath-taking.

They are a very evil regime and yet can pretend when it suits them to care about things like trust, confidence and (on occasion) human rights.

After the IRGC murdered thousands of their own people, I don't think Sky should even be giving Iranian diplomats a platform. It legitimizes rulers who should be proscribed as terrorists across the Western world.

Yours too

I know it must be annoying that people are getting you mixed up, apologies that I also did this, but you and easterparadehats do post very similar views!

Aginglikegazpacho's posts are very good. Agree with @rainingsnoring that those sympathetic to the war could benefit from reading them

@Twiglets1 I agree it does legitimise them.
Then seeing those poor women all dressed in black like the handmaids tale as human shields on a bridge !
That smug bastard whining away about "trust".
We wouldnt be here if they werent evil power mad lunatics.

@AgingLikeGazpacho thanks for taking the time to reply . I can imagine you have been asked lots of questions and I hope you get everything you want for your country.

But we disagree that the USA and the UK want to keep your country as a third world giant prison where women have won the right to show their forearms etc.

The entire world will be safer if we bring all countries to stable democracy.

Straits of Hormuz reportedly shut again, god help the Iranians.

This war was started by a man elected by a "stable democracy" supporting another man elected by a "stable democracy".

"Donald Trump said US ships, aircraft and soldiers will remain around Iran and threatened that the US will start “shooting” again unless Tehran fully complies with the deal reached with Washington. “If for any reason it is not, which is highly unlikely, then the “Shootin’ Starts,” bigger, and better, and stronger than anyone has ever seen before,” Trump wrote in a late night Truth Social post."

Unhinged....

Did i really see a giant rabbit on a balcony as Trump gave out another rambling speech?

Thought at first it was an AI generated thing... but it really wasn't.

@RedTagAlan I agree with much of your post. I agree that both Iran and Israel kept attacking for hours after the ceasefire was announced. That may be normal in ceasefires I'm not sure. I agree with @fracturedupont that maybe an immediate end to fighting shouldn't be an expectation after an announcement is made, and that a time and date that the ceasefire was to start should have been agreed formally to avoid this situation.

As you say, we know for certain now that Netanyahu had no intention of stopping against Lebanon. His office made that very clear shortly after the ceasefire was announced, and Trump is agreeing that this was not part of the deal he agreed. Yet Pakistan and Iran are arguing that it was. Recollections differ, as Queen Elizabeth famously said.

Vice President Vance suggests that a “legitimate misunderstanding” led Iran to believe that Lebanon was covered by the two-week ceasefire, even though Washington never agreed to such terms (according to him) .

“If Iran wants to let this negotiation fall apart – in a conflict where they were getting hammered – over Lebanon, which has nothing to do with them and which the United States never once said was part of the ceasefire, that’s ultimately their choice,” Vance said as he left Hungary on Wednesday.

His choice of words doesn't suggest he is the greatest diplomat in the world (or even the US) but will apparently* *lead a delegation in talks with Iran in Pakistan beginning on 11 April, along with special envoy Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner.

It seems that Iran are still intending to send delegates to Islamabad for the negotiations, so that's positive that they don't in fact appear to want to end negotiations over the Israel/Lebanon issue. However, it won't be easy for Iran and the US to agree terms necessary for a permanent ceasefire:

According to Sky News:

Iran's ambassador to Pakistan said his country's delegation would arrive in the city tonight for "serious talks" based on the 10-point plan proposed by Iran.

The White House has rejected the 10-point plan, with press secretary Karoline Leavitt saying it was "literally thrown in the garbage by President Trump" and what Iran releases publicly is "much different" to what its officials said to Trump privately.

news.sky.com/story/iran-war-latest-254-people-killed-by-israeli-strikes-in-lebanon-today-says-civil-defence-service-13509565

I hope you would be heartened to know how many people in the UK agree with you.

I don't think the UK wants to keep Iran 3rd world, just to keep it away from nuking Israel, but the effect is the same and it saddens me greatly to see the gradual progress towards more freedom for Iranians decimated in this way.

@AgingLikeGazpacho I don't think I've seen one person on this thread or others be negative about the good people of Iran, or the country itself.

It is the IRGC regime some of us have a huge problem with and those we seek to criticise. Speaking for myself, (though I believe most/all would agree) I am really hoping that a permanent ceasefire can be agreed over the next fortnight of negotiations.

I will add that no one wants to keep Iran 3rd world, we want the Iranian people to be able to prosper.

Thanks twiglets1 that's really informative.

"The White House has rejected the 10-point plan, with press secretary Karoline Leavitt saying it was "literally thrown in the garbage by President Trump".

What is wrong with these people? Do they really think this is the appropriate rhetoric to use when negotiating for peace?

@Imdunfer and us safe twenty potential attacks from Iran foiled.
Eventually one may get through.

I think we are learning that this sort of rhetoric has taken over the White House since Trump took charge.

I find I'm starting to translate people in my head when I read such statements. So in my head I'm thinking the US don't accept the 10 point plan but it is being used as a basis for negotiations.