A whole civilisation will die tonight.

[todayImstruggling]

Tumps exact words today!

WTAF? That sounds like he is about to drop a Nuke!

How the hell has the world got here?

Trumps truth social posts sounds more like something that a dramatic gleeful tv presenter would say in a game show. Not something a world leader threatening to blow up an entire civilisation.

https://news.sky.com/story/iran-war-latest-trump-tehran-us-israel-kharg-island-netanyahu-lebanon-strikes-drone-live-sky-news-13509565

So they both have their own ten point plans which neither side likes

And pakistan, where is Pakistan's leaders in all this...Pakistan though this and that.
A quick Google shows they are not covered in glory either and whilst there is some economic stability their legitimacy is questionable.

Those are home soil terrorist attacks. There was never any danger of Iran itself bombing us.

if you think bombing Iran will reduce terrorist attacks on the UK, dream on.

Apologies @EasternStandard-similar names and views.

Your post is informative and interesting and you clearly know so much about the situation in Iran.
I would like to ask you though about the deaths of those who stood up to the regime before Xmas.

This is a genuine question and not meant to be in any way inflammatory.
What do you know about what happened and why? Were we told the true stories about that?

I think Trump and the US were wrong in what they did and should be held accountable for it. And I think they started the war for their own ends and to make money.
But the deaths of protesters are often given as evidence that they were right to act to ensure "regime change".
I would be genuinely interested to hear your take on this.

The level of some of the posts on this thread is nearly as batshit as Trumps lies Truth posts.

Trump needs to get his rabid attack dog on a leash and under control, although I suspect he's such a weak piece of shit he is incapable and neutered.

If you search aginglikegazpacho's posts, she has explained her take on this.

If you had some knowledge of the history of US initiated conflicts, you would not be making those bold statements.
If you had some understanding of how vital energy is to the economy (it is the economy), you would not make statements 'it's worth a mild recession'.

You have no evidence that the world would be safer if the US regime changes all countries. That statement is thoroughly imperialistic, arrogant and supports all the mass death and destruction caused by these regime change and thieving of other country's resources.
@AgingLikeGazpacho has taken the trouble to write long posts to help educate people, including about historical US led attacks on Iran because they did not want their resources nationalised and wanted to control the ME region. As she has said, and I have said on other threads, along with a number of other posters, many Iranians may hate the regime but they hate the US and they hate death and destruction more. You condemn the IRGC but fail to condemn all the death, destruction and chaos created by the US and Israel.

Thanks

Thank you for all of your posts @AgingLikeGazpacho

This is the first time I am replying, but I have read all with interest and what you write very much aligns with how I feel about the situation, including the historical context and hopes for the future.

I would also love to see Iran opened up for visitors to experience everything you listed.

And why was that? One of their bridges was bombed as cars crossed over it, there is footage of this. The US and Israel have been attacking their infrastructure since the start of the war.

Attacking civilian infrastructure is still likely a war crime regardless of whether Israel attacked a bridge first (also probably a war crime).

Yeah, but no thanks FFS.

As much as I dislike the regime, it would feel incredibly one-sided to not allow the Iranian diplomats to have a platform to also express their/the state's views

It's up to the newscasters to expose hypocrisy, propaganda, and lies - I am supportive of them interviewing whoever they like as long as they aren't just letting propagandists issue statements without appropriate challenge or commentary.

I've found it very interesting to see the points each side is focusing on - in particular, the fact that Iran doesn't seem to have taken the bait on Hegseth's framing of this as a religious war (I don't think it was a coincidence that the war began during Ramadan).

Rather, Iranian figureheads seem to have chosen to focus their messaging on Epstein, the Minab schoolgirls, the futility of negotiating with the current US administration, Israel's actions, and Iranian sovereignty/US presence in the Middle East. Probably in a bid to appeal to western sensibilities and get US citizen sympathy/support

Given USA funding/support of terrorist organisations as well (e.g. the Afghan Mujahideen, Jundallah, various Syrian opposition groups that defected towards terrorism), it's shaky ground to proscribe Iran's leaders of terrorism and not the USA presidents who have also armed and funded these proxies too.

The war has certainly exposed a lot of hypocrisy and demonstrated how rhetoric around rights and war crimes etc are leveraged by propagandists at whatever point is convenient to them and dropped quickly once it no longer serves the larger political purpose

One can hardly class the Iran regime as being civilized. That said what Trump is doing is bonkers. He comes across as being completely unhinged. I have no sympathy for the Mullahs but a great deal of sympathy for the poor Iranians who are suffering under their control.

He is a fuc__ink Mad Man of America.

These are the people how lecture others about terrorism. And yet themselves are the biggest terrorists in the world.

@AgingLikeGazpacho thank you. A really interesting and enlightening post.

Lol what is it that you think civilisation is?

A country that is either becoming too powerful or has the potential to, and/or has the key to sway the regional power dynamics, key resources, or is causing trouble to an ally, or are arming themselves, historic animosity, land grabbing intent, perceived threat ... more criteria can be added to this list.

Such a country's progress should be thwarted, so that their own positions are safe.

This has been the case always in history, Kingdoms or Nations, whatever the entity is called. Of course, spreading a religion was another cause, like in the case of the Crusades.

That's all it boils down to.

The rhetoric of protecting Human rights, removal of dictatorial regimes, all that is just fluff to disguise the true intent.

But, even if there was such a genuine intent, imposing western democracy isn't necessarily the required/best option.
The country in question quite often has complex dynamics and is far more heterogeneous than a typical western democracy. It's a different system of governance that it needs. It's a very colonial/supremacist mindset to think that somehow western countries know better how to govern the country in question.

Human rights violations are better addressed by a world body than individual countries. And there should be a blanket ban on military intervention by any country.

In some ways, Trump atleast has made his intent clear, that it's the oil/natural resources that he is interested in, Venezuela, Iran, Greenland, -- unlike other world leaders (think Tony Blair justifying this war, albeit articulated in a much more polished way, devoid of obsceneties) who would try and make a show of how they are trying to spread western democratic values and to help the people of that country (that they are bombing!).

That the might of the American Military has been showcased to the world now, it's going to make every country to increase their defence spending. NATO countries have already been forced to do so. Apparently, European countries have been spending too much on their social welfare schemes!

And if you want to be cynical, US leads the world in arms manufacture. So, there's that.

Probably nuclear proliferation will increase too. As was observed by a PP, the countries which aren't nuclear powers/part of an alliance like NATO, have found themselves really exposed. US wouldn't dare to "intervene"in North Korea for example, though they have bases in South Korea.

I don't know about that @AgingLikeGazpacho

Sky News weren't interviewing Hamas leaders during the war in Gaza as far as I recall, in the interests of not being seen as "one-sided".

I guess it's because the IRGC aren't a proscribed terrorist organisation yet in the whole Western world, just a large part of it. The sooner the UK do that the better, as far as I'm concerned.

I agree. Opposing views should be heard.

A lot of people in the West either don't know or ignore the fact that the US and other Western countries have regularly sponsored terrorists when it has suited them. They have installed an Al Qaeda terrorist as the Syrian leader, welcoming him to the White House. There is a great deal of hypocricy in the West in the way that behaviour of the Iranians is widely condemned but the same or worse behaviour by the US or Israel is not criticised or even applauded.

I can promise you I am a very boring, run-of-the-mill mum of two, my life is very domestic just trying to navigate life, kids, work, the delights of peri etc. It gets exciting when we all come down with the vomiting bug but I can’t claim a mental illness, thankful for that as my back gives me quite enough trouble.

Anyway I’ll respect the political discussion on here and won’t post further. I just wanted to be honest, sometimes I do try to post about how close to the end it seems we are. If I didn’t believe or was anti-faith I still think I’d want to know other perspectives and consider the evidence for what might be coming. The churches certainly aren’t teaching on end times, at least no more than skirting the edges (it makes up a huge whack of scripture and biblical prophecy and is strange it’s almost intentionally avoided, I don’t get it).
Most ppl on MN appear atheist or anti-Christian and I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, just to say there are other perspectives and things that seem to tie up with what we are seeing play out on the world stage. If I knew someone who knew what was coming I’d want to hear and weigh it up for myself. What I found so compelling particularly about the visions children are having is the sheer volume of them. So many children from different places.

But the US are teaching this in many fundamental churches. And the role of Israel in “the rapture” Is one of the driving forces for the US’s uncritical support for Israel and lack of interest in any form of peaceful solution. I really have no problem with what anyone believes, but the “end of days” rhetoric is playing a crucial and dangerous role in geopolitics.

They didn"t have internet the last time they overthrew a regime in Iran?