Are you aware of the amount of SEN/additional needs pupils in class?

[yetiflowerpumpkin]

I’ve put this in chat rather than anywhere else because I just want to highlight the scale of SEN/additional needs in schools. In my experience, and reading on MN, some parents aren’t aware of the issues school staff face in supporting these students.

I am an experienced cover teacher in a medium sized primary school. In the classes I cover there are 25-30 children.

As an example, in two of the classes 75% of the pupils have additional educational needs. Some are diagnosed, others are on the (years long) waiting list. Some have multiple needs (Autism, ADHD, AuDHD, SEMH, dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, physical/visual impairment and other medical needs, some life threatening). I don’t think in any class I cover there is less than 40%.

I think some parents think their child is the only child with needs in class and cannot understand why those needs are sometimes not met. In the ideal world all those needs would be met, but there isn’t a possibility in mainstream with lack of support staff, lack of space and lack of funding.

I try and do my best (my own family are neurodivergent) but I know my best isn’t good enough for some parents.

Does it surprise you the amount of additional needs there are in class?

All of OPs list plus...pupils who have english with second language, experienced bereavement, young carers, children under social work etc.

Using what money if the parent has had to give up work /has to go part time because of their child's needs?

@landlordhellof course you know. Parents talk and you get to know the children and a lot of parents are very open about it, plus your own child comes home and tells you things or you see a one to one in the classroom, it’s pretty obvious! Aside from that, it’s obvious in other classes too- when a child has someone with them, when they keep getting up out of assembly, wear ear defenders, can’t participate in class assemblies, are non verbal, visibly stimming or can’t make eye contact.

@VikaOlsonmy 5 year old’s class do lots of playing, singing and junk modelling and spent lots of time outdoors so this isn’t correct. My 7 year old still does lots of play and independent led learning too. Yes my 5 year olds work does include writing sentences but he is capable and the rest of the class must be too so where is the issue in that?

I think you’ll find lots of these kids aren’t statemented; which is why they don’t have EHCP’s - meaning the school doesn’t have allocated resources to pay for additional cover. A majority of SEN parents do not need to give up work, they may need to if they decide to have a multiple of kids. Schools not being able to meet their pupils needs is a terrible thing. Bright children don’t have the competitive mix to inspire them to work harder.

Statements haven't been a thing since 2014!

Err...lovely. A charge?!

I agree with this. I know an 8 year old who has a genetic condition diagnosed when his mum was pregnant with him, she was monitored closely and on medication so the pregnancy was successful. He’s autistic among other diagnoses and on the waitlist for a special school. 20 years ago he would have been stillborn.

Medical care has advanced significantly to allow unwell babies to live but the correlation between this and more children who need support in school has not been properly recognised.

There are more single parent families (I am including mine in this), because there is less stigma around divorce, some of the children in these families have experienced significant trauma and need support too.

My ds10 has significant anxiety around attending school and I am attending an online parent anxiety support group. I won’t divulge any of the situations that the other parents have described but I don’t believe that an online group once a week for 6 weeks is enough to help these kids. Some of them have significant diagnoses and their parents cannot work as a result because the kids can’t attend school. Yet this is the only thing offered on the nhs. It’s like putting a plaster on a broken leg.

What is going on in schools which means so many kids have problems attending? Maybe it is something not right with the school system and curriculum rather than neurodivergent children. If half of children are neurodivergent then we need to be looking at reclassifying the terms.

And yes, I do think screens are a factor in poor attention spans, which coincidentally is a major indicator of ADHD.

You’re right. In my experience the ks1 curriculum is reduced. They used to learn number bonds to 10 in reception but now this is year 1.

All children are entitled to state education. Charging parents of SEND children only to access state education has disability discrimination written all over it.

I think it’s important that SEN doesn’t get linked to automatically non academic.
I had a SEN diagnosis 35 years ago and was academically successful.
Both of my dc also do and are also academically successful.
They attend a private school and benefit from smaller class sizes and a more individual experience. It is very broad spectrum with a lot of variables.

A majority of SEN parents do not need to give up work

Can you link to the statistics please? Because this statement goes against what charities such as Contact say. Many parent carers have to give up work regardless of how many DC they have.

Your comment about charging SEN parents is abhorrent. Who else do you think should be charged? DC with EAL, DC subject to CPP, PP and PP+ DC, DC who injure themselves or are ill at school? Or is it just DC with SEN you have an issue with?

The amount of time and money we spent on support to get them to meet their potential -- not to mention sums we failed to raised to get them privately disgonsed as every state way was blocked but other SEN/ND do feel they have no choice but to find- I feel many SEN/ND parents are already paying hidden charges.

Exactly, are we going to charge NHS patients for disabilities as well? I agree @Kirbert2 __, it was a ridiculous comment!

One size does not fit all, so quite honestly i could see that being a recipe for disaster if it was applied to dc's primary school.

A charge?!? Sorry...what?! Wow....I actually don't know how to respond to this 🙈

It is pure ignorance isn't it? It is also not only insulting and extremely ignorant towards children with disabilities. It is insulting to anybody with a disability.

Yes, there has been a huge increase in young children with myopia. It has been suggested that it is related to screen usage.

Yep, don’t you want schools properly funded and staffed?

As if labels of "weird", "lazy", "naughty" etc did them any good though. This is exactly the reason why there are many older adults now struggling with mental health disorders, and on a long list of medications that do very little. I lost a parent who was repeatedly told "there must be something causing the anxiety/burn out", and this led to eventually a misdiagnosis of "generalised anxiety." The symptoms were treated rather than the cause, (of course ND was not recognised back then). My parent had mental health problems, addiction, and an early death as a result. The meds were the opposite of what would have been described for adhd, because they were for the wrong diagnosis. Thank goodness the world has moved on from that. I am giving my child the support my parent never had, and will do everything in my power to avoid dc being utterly dismissed. A formal diagnosis is an excellent start.

A formal diagnosis is an excellent start.
Yes, and so is an honest debate about what's happening. But that can't happen if people immediately shoot down some of those suggestions as "parent-blaming."

You want to do that by discriminating against SEND children?

Either all parents should pay or none should pay. State school can’t be free for some and not all.

No where did I mention parenting, and I am clearly talking about ND children, not poor behaviour caused by parenting. NT kids with behavioural issues won't get diagnosed as having ND, or be on medication for it.

Yes I know it is but it doesn’t make it right

Obviously. But the point is that this IS the situation.