Are you aware of the amount of SEN/additional needs pupils in class?

[yetiflowerpumpkin]

I’ve put this in chat rather than anywhere else because I just want to highlight the scale of SEN/additional needs in schools. In my experience, and reading on MN, some parents aren’t aware of the issues school staff face in supporting these students.

I am an experienced cover teacher in a medium sized primary school. In the classes I cover there are 25-30 children.

As an example, in two of the classes 75% of the pupils have additional educational needs. Some are diagnosed, others are on the (years long) waiting list. Some have multiple needs (Autism, ADHD, AuDHD, SEMH, dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, physical/visual impairment and other medical needs, some life threatening). I don’t think in any class I cover there is less than 40%.

I think some parents think their child is the only child with needs in class and cannot understand why those needs are sometimes not met. In the ideal world all those needs would be met, but there isn’t a possibility in mainstream with lack of support staff, lack of space and lack of funding.

I try and do my best (my own family are neurodivergent) but I know my best isn’t good enough for some parents.

Does it surprise you the amount of additional needs there are in class?

Bang on! It’s not a popular opinion but it’s how I see it too.

I think 20% is more of a reasonable guess nationally (actually diagnosed/supported by assessment reports) but it's worth bearing in mind that schools that are inclusive attract more SEN children. Plus access to assessment and reports such as educational psychology is hard and getting harder.

Covid has had a bunch of effects, both directly, and also the waiting lists it created, which have still not been addressed.

Other developed countries are also seeing a rise in SEN but their healthcare and educational systems may have had a bit more slack in them. Certainly doctors per head is a low figure in the UK and children per teacher is high. Real terms education funding per child is lower than it was 15 years ago and capital funding ditto (buildings).

At my son’s school there’s 84 children on role on his year group 30 of which have Sen. There no TA’s in the class for general support, 3 of the children have their own 1:1 then the some of the other children have targeted support but the teacher is basically responsible for 27 children on her own ;(and the ta has 1child) and a third of the class has Sen.

it’s a nightmare for teachers

*relevance of long waits for assessment and diagnosis is probable extra SEN in classroom.

There is no way my DD would have been assessed, diagnosed and supported if left up to the school. For one thing we were trying to get her assessed in 2020!

In my dc secondary school they will put a lot of the SEN children in the same tutor group with a TA working permanently with the class. Which works well but will affect the statistics.

Absolutely, and this is one of the reasons why summer born children are much more likely to have SEN than autumn born children - the curriculum just isn't developmentally appropriate.

When I started school 5 year olds were expected to write their names and know the alphabet, now the same children are expected to write multi-sentence narratives.
In order to get them to that stage play, art and music has to be dropped in favour of sitting at desks.
The days of infant school being lots of singing, junk modelling and playing in the home corner are long gone.

I can't. At all.

One of my high school classes ("mixed" ability GCSE, not a designated SEND class) has 80% of students with diagnosed SEND.

Anyone who thinks this isn't possible can fuck right off.

I don’t think it is unreasonable for a parent to expect their needs to be met. The school system needs looked at and sorted out. My daughter has some Sen needs. It is quite obvious how overwhelmed her teacher is though with the amount of Sen children she has to deal with. If I knew how bad things were with mainstream schools I would have done everything to do better so she could attend private school or home education.

Currently 1/3 of my child's class has SEN, however they are only Year 1 so chances are this will rise over time with more diagnoses.

lots of fabulous parent blame in there.

I actually think very little is down to blame - on anyone other than the government tbh.
Where do you see me blaming parents?

No I didn’t, another poster did that. Neither asthma nor wearing glasses is an additional need.

Oh and when I say government I should have said governments.
I’m no fan of the current lot - I did have some hope they might at least try and sort some stuff out, but I meant the successive government over about the last 20 years!

It is happening though. Schools are having to do more and more parenting than before. Some schools are taking responsibility for cleaning teeth and there was talk that if successful in reducing tooth decay and extractions, it may be rolled out to all schools. My colleagues are changing nappies in reception!!!

There are two in my child's class of 28.

You won't know how many!!

Exactly! How would you know? Info is not shared with other parents.

Most of them really!

using childcare, working so tired, screens, types of food, having kids older, parents with SEN having “multiple” children.

I think it’s more down to funding issues, pressures on education to do even more, more awareness of needs, parents advocating for their kids due to awareness, schools and education very rigid and not supporting other ways of learning.

and yes of course there are some behavioural needs due to parenting etc. But I think saying use of full time childcare causes attachment issues is a kick in the teeth to those of us working!

I agree with you about childcare and have actually generally found the opposite to be true. Children who've never been in childcare sometimes find the transition to school much more difficult.

this shouldn’t be on the schools

You are choosing to take offence.
I am also a working parent. Did you miss the bit where I said I can’t afford to leave teaching?
I understand that very often both parents need to work. Me and dh have to - we rent, little savings - it’s hard. No blame for others doing the same.
There is a world of difference between using childcare and a 9 month old being in a nursery from 8-6 daily.
Flame me if you like but I would judge that - but that is what the government are pushing for.

This is why nothing is happening about working out what is causing this huge rise in SEN - too many people find it uncomfortable, too many people make money out of it.

I am talking about the extremes - the children we regularly see who have developed American accents from so much you tube etc, who do not know how to turn the page if a book but will swipe instead like using a screen.

I am ‘blaming’ no one, but pointing out that actions and choices do have consequences.

But it is. Therapeutic thinking is the latest offering. Basically it boils down to not excluding chn and understanding their needs instead and providing the right care for them. Absolutely but there’s no extra funding. It’s been brought in so that local authorities can pass the buck back to schools .

Sometimes it’s as simple as the school having a reputation and the resources to support children with additional needs. Therefore, more parents sent their SEN children there and that means the numbers are disproportionately higher.

I don’t find this surprising at all, it’s why we pay for private school. Many state parents choose not to see how stretched state schools are. I find it all worrying, from where I’m sitting it looks like crowd control vs. education. Conversely it must be most frustrating for kids who are academic and wanting to get on. Maybe there needs to be a SEN charge, to allow schools way to fund kids with additional needs. Bill it back to the parents.