Are you aware of the amount of SEN/additional needs pupils in class?

[yetiflowerpumpkin]

I’ve put this in chat rather than anywhere else because I just want to highlight the scale of SEN/additional needs in schools. In my experience, and reading on MN, some parents aren’t aware of the issues school staff face in supporting these students.

I am an experienced cover teacher in a medium sized primary school. In the classes I cover there are 25-30 children.

As an example, in two of the classes 75% of the pupils have additional educational needs. Some are diagnosed, others are on the (years long) waiting list. Some have multiple needs (Autism, ADHD, AuDHD, SEMH, dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, physical/visual impairment and other medical needs, some life threatening). I don’t think in any class I cover there is less than 40%.

I think some parents think their child is the only child with needs in class and cannot understand why those needs are sometimes not met. In the ideal world all those needs would be met, but there isn’t a possibility in mainstream with lack of support staff, lack of space and lack of funding.

I try and do my best (my own family are neurodivergent) but I know my best isn’t good enough for some parents.

Does it surprise you the amount of additional needs there are in class?

Wow that is quite terrifying. What do you think would help? More sen schools?

Also, i wonder what has changed, were there always that percentage in the class years ago, do you think? Just undiagnosed?

I simply don't believe 75% of classes are Sen. Do you have evidence to back this?

The whole thing is a mess.
Parents are not unreasonable wanting their child to feel safe and happy at school - which many children with additional needs don’t.
School staff are not unreasonable that doing their best isn’t enough when they don’t have the resources to support these children.

I know that my demands on a school would be unreasonable of them, but also that the vast majority of schools would not be able to keep my child safe, happy and educated. I’m lucky enough to be able to home educate and my child is thriving, but I recognise that is a privilege.

I do. I’m in my 26th year of teaching. 40% is the average with ASN here in Scotland but it is really area dependent. 75% in schools with high SIMD Cat 1 catchments would not be a surprise at all.

OP is including children who need glasses and have some kind of medical need in her 75%. Some of those children will need support in school but some of them will have well controlled asthma or glue ear at one time. 75% of all children under the age of 10 yrs old will have had glue ear at one time but the majority of them won’t need any additional support.

I am aware, but that's mainly because my children have SEN and i tend to reach out to other parents. I used to go to a SN baby group and I miss that now the dc are older. I also ask the senco. She is obviously not allowed to name children but she will tell me for example how many in the class have an ehcp and how many other dc my child is sharing his TA with.

Not in the slightest surprised.
what I think the issue is though, is the expectation that all children should meet the same standards, and the “one side fits all’ approach to education - to be clear I know that is a dept of education issue, not a teacher or school issue. The obsession with data about children’s performance, is bordering on criminal for me.
it means the only way children who don’t fit that model have to get a SEN profile, as it’s the only way for the school to access extra support / justify doing things differently for a child. This situation is created by the d of e, mostly in the time of Gove, but continued by others. It’s a disgusting state of affairs, and I take my hat off to every single teacher in the front line of it.

Sorry OP but you're distorting the facts.

The bigger question is why are so many children “disabled” now. My dc are in their 20’s and there were only 1 or 2 in any class with Sen with the exception of specific learning disabilities like dyslexia which would be an additional 1 or 2. My DD’s both are neurodivergent and one is dyslexic, I knew senco well and she told me that most the issues were home life issues not sen. What has changed in the 12 years since I had that conversation? You can’t blame Covid because the numbers were rising before

I think some parents think their child is the only child with needs in class and cannot understand why those needs are sometimes not met.

Communication is key here, isn't it?

Why aren't they being told about the 75%?

Although ultimately, every good parent will advocate for their own DC regardless.

75% seems insanely high. Why do you think it’s so high and changed so much in a relatively short period of time? If you’re saying between 75-40% of any class will be kids with special needs we need to change mainstream education to cater
to that.

OP said two classes was 75%, not all classes. This is possible.

I was told by someone in our council that 37.5% of kids in schools in Scotland have additional needs.

I know someone who had a class in her first year of teaching where there were 4 sen kids with serious behavioural issues and only one ANA. It nearly broke her.

The question that needs to be addressed is why there's such a high percentage
Is it a breakdown in discipline? Are there medical or environmental factors at play?

As a teacher I’m not seeing 75%, but if you’re including all medical conditions and glasses that’s a silly measure of additional needs. Most kids with glasses just put their glasses on and get on with life. Ditto most asthmatic children rarely need extra input or accommodations. Why don’t we stop exaggerating for dramatic effect and talk about the actual number of students with the additional needs that affect their general functioning and behaviour, which is the real issue? And I’d say 25-40% in most schools these days. Was it chemicals in the water? Chernobyl? Additives concentrating down since the 80s? Who knows.

Hi op I'm in an area of education and one of my DC turned out to have mild sen.
What I've found inside the system and outside the system is that the pgce doesn't include send and what option there are it's to minimal degree.
So my DD teachers had no idea why she was falling behind and actually put the onus on us for not doing enough at home when actually we were doing loads !
We wasted much time and many years until I had to buy in outside help and professionals.
Our senco didn't seem to know anything either.

This I've learned and seen with my own eyes is extremely common.

So if that's our base starting point of course any class will struggle, teachers and kids.

I recently attended a meeting whereby it was stressed that teachers must have sen education in the pgce. Sendco must be properly trained also.
We need more professionals in the early years to help support and identify needs early eg ed psycs ,salt and so on .
Many more class assistants to support
A better flow of knowledge and expertise because many tas have degrees and or experience with send but often that's not recognise so a valuable resource is lost

And finally we need our systems to be more flexible to accommodate different learning styles eg as per my user name /phonics
Many DC can't learn to read with it ,it's a barrier not a support.

I read somewhere that I can’t find at the moment, that it’s over 40% in the lower age groups. Unsurprisingly since they are the ones that were kept away from others in a pandemic, missing out massive developmental opportunities. No wonder they are struggling.

The government seriously need to be addressing this if it's true. Not only so that the needs of these children can be met now but for future planning also. What happens in twenty years time if many of these kids can't work or are very limited in what type of work they can do, or are reliant on benefits? We already have a situation where there aren't enough working people to support the older population and all those needing support now. It's a complete disaster waiting to happen.
There needs to be some serious discussion and planning.

Where does it say Op is including children who need glasses? A certified vision impairment cannot be corrected with glasses. Children with a standard glasses prescription are not classed as SEN. Nor those with mild and well controlled asthma who don’t need inhalers in school.

I work in schools. There is easily around 50% of SEN in many classes so it’s not a shock that some classes had up to 75%.

Not waiting to happen, actually happening. My discussion with the council was in relation to my son being violently assaulted. The stat was relayed as a way of saying to me, “This is the reality now, suck it up”.

What's the point that you are actually trying to make?
With special school places being cut wherever possible in favour of 'resource bases' in schools, any form of actual meaningful SEND support nigh on impossible to get (where I live the only way to get a place in the only special school is to take the LA to a tribunal) of course classes are going to contain nore SEND pupils than first thought. And of course the funding to actually support these children is non-existent as well.

Am I missing something? I keep rereading the OP. Where does it say children with glasses and mild asthma being counted as SEN?

I'd say there’s about 20-25% SEN children in my daughter's class. I was shocked at how high it was.

My daughter was born with a medical condition and needs some additional help but, as it is medical and not educational, she doesn't even come under SEN. So it wouldn't surpise me if the number of children needing some type of help is even higher.

Exactly. We’re seeing an increase in schools in Scotland because all the so-called special schools are being closed down and kids who Woujd gave previously been sent there are being moved into mainstream.

I’m not incl glasses or glue ear.

Visual impairment means the child has partial sight. Other medical needs are for example cerebral palsy.