Labour isn't working - Thread 24

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙* *

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5454130-labour-isnt-working-thread-23?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Okay so this is interesting. Nigel Farage has said that the benefits cap should be lifted only for British born families in work … and Rachel Reeves has said that this is racist. The thing is, “British born” does not automatically mean white. It isn’t the 1950s any more.

Labour have analysed Farage’s proposal and it would mean benefits would only be increased for 1% of those affected by the cap.

I think Farage is regretting his decision to pledge lifting the cap, so is trying to streamline that commitment.
You're right to say it isn't racist. British born does not mean white christian. More labels from Labour. "Cruel alliance" and "racist" this morning.

This is another of the preachy lectures that go unremarked in opposition but turn away voters from a government. There’s probably a decent argument against the economics of this proposal, but no, it has to be condemned as racist.

Labour student politics yet again.

I'm not sure that's true. I think the policy always was that the child cap uncapping should be limited to British national. I remember Matt Goodwin defending the policy back in autumn based on that principle and by tethering the policy to population decline concerns. So, I don't think it's new.

Not even student politics; the level of name-calling and jibes belongs in the playground, not in the HoC from the "Government" (inverted commas because this lot haven't a clue).

I see Leadbeater is annoyed that the Lord's are doing their job and scrutinising the assisted dying bill and is demanding that they sit for longer to get it passed.

What happened to the accusations that this was legislature that was mapped out by the then opposition government and is masquerading as a private bill?

Maybe there are so many fights at that tram stop that it warrants a defence budget? 🤷‍♀️

Only 1% of the parents benefitting from the £2.3 billion benefits cap lifting are British born??

Are you sure? That's pretty shocking - and not because of Farage's position.

I've got a feeling that a lot has been swept under the carpet which would utterly shock us all if there were accurate statistics and analysis. I don't think anyone has properly analysed the exponentially rising - and exponentially destructive - cost of uncontrolled immigration to the next generation...

Not sure what you mean by not true?
I know its not new, but Farage changed tack slightly after there was pushback following Reform's announcement that they would lift the cap. He then was very keen to emphasise who wouldn't get it, rather than who would. I remember we discussed it on here.

1%, is that right? Instinctively that feels wrong but I'd love to see the figures around it.

I mean, DH is a foreigner and we have three - although no benefits that would put us in this matrix.

I wonder how much disparity is down to the tfr rates - and who is willing/driven to have a larger family. (And who is having children just generally, over a third of births last year were to foreign born mothers - not accounting for fathers). And how much of this is down to the number of immigrants in the country are unemployed/ in low wages.

But even then, 1% surely can't be right?

Sorry @TheNuthatch. Just re-reading my post there and it reads quite pissy, which was not the tone I intended as I wrote it. I just meant that I think the original policy announcement to extend benefits did include the caveat of being for nationals only at the outset - rather than retrospectively added to adapt to pushback.

I just don't think the media picked up on the caveat until later and so it looked like pushback.

Iirc - it dropped around the same time that they were talking about changing the indefinite leave to remain rules and that was being called racist. Perhaps it got lost in the weeds? Or, I could be wrong - so much happened last year that it felt like I should have made notes to keep up.

Oh god, I didn't read it as you being pissy. I wasn't being pissy back either.
I obviously didn't do a good job of explaining what I meant.
Agree that the media didn't pick up (or didn't report) on the original caveats.
I remember Farage being at pains to point it out at a press conference shortly after.
We had a discussion on here at the time, and a few posters from this thread didn't know about it just being for working parents.

It's been such a taboo subject, even raising it and you'd get called racist - probably still would on most of MN.
But yes I'd imagine there's some huge scary amounts even legally claimed, not to mention fraud scandals; look at what has been unearthed in Minnesota for instance.

😁 Oh good - sometimes I think I come across as a bit unintentionally narky.

I had completely forgotten that they said it would be limited to working parents.

On the 1%, found this in the linked article.

Out of the 470,000 households affected by the cap, only 3,700 have two adults working full-time – less than 0.8 per cent of the total.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15445407/Rachel-Reeves-brands-critics-benefits-splurge-RACIST-Labour-boasts-law-scrapping-two-child-cap-reaching-Parliament.html

Hey, you didn’t come across as narky!

I think the 1% is for parents who are British born AND both parents working full time (37.5 hours a week).

I just read a new name for Starmer, which made me chuckle.

The human ring-binder….

So, there has to be two parents both working full time hours (or, presumably a single parent working full time hours?) earning less than the benefit threshold, with three or more children and be born in the UK?

That's some threshold.

tbh not many would have an issue with benefits cap lift for two parents working full time - they’re doing their best! Not surprised that’s not that many families.

Who would have to be British-born? And is it British at birth or just British?

I’ve just read that Labour are going to u-turn on the increases in business rates for pubs.

Another day, another policy that they have been forced to abandon. Maybe if they actually came up with some decent ideas, they wouldn’t have to keep backtracking on everything!

I don't know.

From Reeves comments you'd think it down to skin colour, seemingly forgetting that a good proportion of nationals are not white and some foreigners are white.

Another day, another policy burning up on impact with reality.

The MN left’s reactions to these u-turns does make me laugh. They’re argued as being responsible, thoughtful policy change after listening to responses and conducting careful analysis (which would mean it was never done in the first place).

Utter bollocks. They’re all panicky climb downs after Labour backbenchers start making threats. Starmer’s not in control, he’s blowing in the wind.

It must be soul destroying for loyal ministers and MPs.

That narrative can only be held by very few. 11% going by approval ratings.