Bondi beach mass shooting

[habin]

Just horrendous. There was a big Jewish gathering on the beach. Jewish festival goers targeted by two gunmen. At least ten people dead according to police.

Is this you being peaceful?

Absolutely horrific. The poor people on that beach who just wanted to celebrate a festival with people who share the same faith. It is absolutely a senseless terror attack against Jewish people.

That does not change the fact though that the situation in Gaza is abhorrent. Two wrongs don't make a right. You can be both anti what is happening to Palestinians in Gaza, and find anti-semitism disgusting. I would almost never blame individuals for war. When you live somewhere war is breaking out, it is almost impossible to not be sucked into it in terms of either ideology or your own safety. Wars are much bigger than civilians.

I'm an Atheist and honestly detest organised religion (to be clear, I DO NOT hate people for their individual beliefs they practice peacefully without trying to influence the government and legal rights of others). Religion has a hand in most wars. My honest view is that we'd all live more peacefully on earth if there was no such thing as religion. I appreciate many people with faith live their lives peacefully, but I can't forgive the worldwide impact on women's rights, abortion laws, the rights of lgb people, and so on.

@Ladamesansmerci
No. Even if there was no religion, there would still be tribalism and conflict.
You yourself are linking this atrocity to the war in Gaza. So geo-political.

CallinoCusturame · Yesterday 23:52
I belong to a people who were murdered, massacred, ethnically cleansed and genocided.
I don't think that gives us the right to randomly shoot innocent people who happen to be of the same religion as the perpetrators of the war crimes committed against us.
If we did - watch out, Anglicans.

cooksbrandedclock · Today 00:48
Just Anglicans, or anyone considered infidel?
And how would anyone recognise an Anglican?

Just Anglicans, or anyone considered infidel?
You make a very good point, cooksbrandedclock. I stand corrected - Presbyterians, Methodists, etc. etc. participated as well.

Not Quakers though, they helped us.

And how would anyone recognise an Anglican?
The standard way to randomly shoot innocent people who happen to be of the same religion as the perpetrators of the war crimes seems to be to note the religious places and occasions when they gather, and plan your murderous attack accordingly.

If you have not followed the news. If you have not seen the response of the EEC or the UN to the events in Gaza and West Bank. If you have not been appalled by the "genocide", and can not see a link, then I must agree with you.

Unfortunately most major world religions are used as a tool of patriarchy.

Christianity- abortion laws in the US, 'women should be silent', women historically being treated as property in the UK, many gender stereotypes that harm women have been driven by religion, etc.

Islam- child brides, literally everything happening in Afghanistan, clothing to preserve modesty, etc.

Regardless of what the original texts and fundamental core beliefs of religions are, the fact remains that men have used them to oppress women.

Yes, because other people on this thread are referencing Gaza and pro-Palestine movements.

I agree we would always find something to have wars over, but you have to admit religion causes more harm than it solves in terms of conflict.

"There has been too much tolerance of hatred against Jews in Australia"
Tony Abbott, former Australian PM.
It certainly sounds that way.

What are you trying to achieve here?

Why people in Australia?

No, because that's too huge a question. It's very glib to blame "religion".
Many of the Jews murdered in the Holocaust weren't religious. It was an ethnic cleansing.
It's far better to look beyond simplistic statements.

Because to the ignorant a Jewish state equates to all Jews.

It is here in Bahrain. It may only be a small community but they are perfectly free to live and worship as they wish without fear or abuse. Their Synagogue,The House Of Ten Commandments,is recognised as the oldest continuously operating synagogue in the GGC and it's a most beautiful place. We also have Indian Temples,Sikh Temples,various Christian denomination places of worship including St Christophers Cathedral and the absolutely stunning Our Lady Of Arabia. All of us rub along just fine.

According to Fondapol, a French think tank, between 1979 and May 2021, at least 48,035 Islamist terrorist attacks took place worldwide, causing the deaths of at least 210,138 people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListofIslamistterroristattacks

This wiki page, not yet updated to show the Bondi atrocity, just gives the major attacks.

This one for Europe is more fine grained:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IslamicterrorisminEurope

There is clearly a massive, massive global issue with Islamism and it's passed time for Muslims in general to start calling this out rather than the endless bitching about Israel.

The statement from the Council of Imans in Sydney didn't even use the words Jewish or terrorist.

I will say I'm glad to see influencers in predominantly the UAE speaking put for Israel and Jewish people, as they're clearly in an environment where they feel safe to do so.

That’s simply not true. 20% of Israel’s citizens are non Jewish, mainly Arab Muslims, they have full citizenship, they serve in the IDF, to senior ranks where they command Jewish troops. They are doctors, dentists, lawyers, politicians. An Israeli Arab judge (Salim Joubran) was on the judging panel that sent a former PM (Olmert) to jail.

They have their own political party. Ra’am. Conservative and Muslim, it had 5 MPs elected to the knesset in 2022.

do your research.

All religion is a mask for control and abuse, in the wrong hands, but most people practise in good faith (so to speak). What's important is to be able to spot the radical Islamists who pose such a terrifying threat not only to the Jewish population, but to the national security of Europe and other countries. @NewmumOct started off saying some interesting things about this, but hasn't answered questions on the topic, and then veered off into anti-Israel propaganda.

It's a pity we can't have a clear and open discussion about this because until we can clearly identify the violent extremists, we run the risk of all Muslims unfairly being tarred with the same brush because the nutters are just hidden under that cloak. And, of course, the grave danger to our peaceful Jewish community - and others - continues unchecked...

My experience of growing up and then working in a majority Muslim area of Rotherham, is that no group of people in the UK are more vulnerable and marginalised than Muslim women.
The way the men are able to act with utter impunity is terrifying.

When I worked with women who are victims of domestic violence, only Muslim women had to be protected from their own family for having the temerity to report their abuse.

Yes. Religion is a vehicle for all men to abuse and control but I won’t pretend that we don’t have a specific and overwhelming problem with the clash between Islamic and western values.

Also, we don’t fear to question other religions.

There’s currently a teacher who has been in hiding, fearing for his life for the last 4 years because he showed a picture in a lesson.

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim I saw the same in Tower Hamlets. It sickens me how so many on the left do their utmost to minimise it.

Sure, but I think the most pressing problem is to stop the regular killing sprees!

It is so sad that no thread expressing solidarity with the Jewish community or offering condolences can be just that.

Whataboutery galore as well as making excuses. But the worst is the blatant antisemitism. Just vile.

You can deny but that does not change the various official & NGO reports regarding Israeli citizens and their different levels of education, medical care, and crime figures.
Also being an Israeli citizen, and therefore elector, does not apply to all Arabs.

Yes.
Of course.

I’m sorry my point detracted from that.

It was merely to point out the incredible damage the left has done by shutting down criticism of this particular religion and pretending it’s that same as all the religions practiced in the uk.

I wasn't having a pop! But we must tread very carefully indeed if we have any hope of flushing out the "baddies" from under that "cloak"...

@VillaDiodati it sure is a small community, it’s estimated that there are fewer than 50 Jews living there. Bahrain is a rare beacon though although of course still has limited freedoms in terms of speech and assembly.