Thread 39 Starmer: chwech/saith - dechreuodd y plant ei

[DuncinToffee]

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5446809-thread-38-starmer-tax-your-hamster?page=40

Political and general chat

Taxes optional but greatly appreciated

Thinking of you and your DH @Evenstar .

Wrong thread

Oh absolutely. And the sort of poster who'd do that shoehorns Labour bashing into every thread they're on.

Meanwhile, (yet) another faux thread on AIBU worried that taxing £2 million houses will mean less council houses so is bad for the poor.

I hope people are seeing that "AI" isn't. It "knows" a lot. But thinks not at all.

I must have missed flurry of threads noting that removing juries and replacing them with men probably isn't a great outcome for women ? There is a reason we used to add "of their peers" to the phrase "right to be tried by a jury".

Will also piss on the chips of anyone with a darker skin.

Catching up.

Best wishes @Evenstar

Sending support to you both @Evenstar 💐

Been thinking about this and I'm in two minds about the jury trial proposals tbh.
My concern is that people are so bloody thick and biased, that a jury result is likely to be too influenced by the current zeitgeist. I suspect it would be difficult for (for example) an asylum seeker accused of a violent crime to get an unbiased jury with no preconceptions in the UK at the moment.

I think that complex fraud and financial cases should not be done before a jury simply because they go on for so long.

If you remove juries you remove the final backstop to injustice.

And - as nobody is saying - the last hope of being tried by a peer.

Seems we are all on board with having our fate decided by the sort of man person who could afford to go to law school and become a lawyer of barrister.

Remember how atypical women who succeed in male professionals tend to be. Mrs Thatcher etc etc.

Still, if women are happy with this, it's not my worry anymore.

I think the demographics of judges has altered since pupils can be paid for their time. Previously needing to fund yourself for a year (possibly longer) precluded applicants that didn’t have wealthy parents.

That said still majority white, male & p/s school educated.
And any diversity lessens with seniority.

Which pretty much ticks all the Reformloon boxes.

Unable to cope with personal freedom they want a return a feudal master knows best life. By their actions ye shall find them.

But the proposal isn't getting rid of all jury trials.

Very true. It does get used for it too though.
@Evenstar so sorry to hear your news 💐

Sky was covering Jeremy Corbyn at the Your Party conference earlier. Full 30 minute speech

Or it’s true but it’s bad because those criminals are being given jobs law abiding people could have.
No pleasing some.

No, just the majority. The ones that will affect the most.

Is that like an ASMR thing to help sleep ?

The problem is the further down you dig into the dimness, the more contradictory drivers you will find.

No tax, but impeccable public services.
Treat "them" harshly, but not "us".
Flawless education but treat teachers with contempt
Well paid jobs but not needing skills
Being right but without the facts

the list goes on. Balance and nuance are very much not on show.

Yes that's absolutely right.

Trails in the public interest will be jury led. "Justice Secretary David Lammy is proposing to massively restrict the ancient right to a jury trial by only guaranteeing it for defendants facing rape, murder, manslaughter or other cases passing a public interest test."

Quote from the BBC.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy7vdvrnnvzo

Meant to include this quote

Just when it couldn't sound even worse, the state gets to haul certain individuals up for a show trial.

You nicked that tin of spam ? No jury for you.
You nicked that tin of spam whilst saying "the PLA are fine folk" ? Clear the TV schedules for the next week.

Presumably I am overthinking this. I mean it's bonkers to distrust the state, isn't it ?

Nicking tins of Spam would be magistrates court only.

A touching faith in the state. Who never get anything wrong ever ?

(The sun is out and I claim it as DM smiling on me).

So sorry even