Justine says MN is too mean and will tighten-up moderation

[noblegiraffe]

Justine posted this on a low-traffic thread in AIBU and I think it deserves a wider audience than it is currently getting, especially as it is asking posters to report low-level sniping and pile-ons. Perhaps a bigger announcement is planned, I don't know.

"Thanks for raising this - it's something we've been discussing internally as we've noticed the same shift you’re describing and we agree it’s something we need to get a much firmer grip on. Debate is part of Mumsnet’s DNA, but unnecessary meanness isn’t, and it helps absolutely no one.
We’ve already put a plan in place to tighten things up. It’s not just about deleting the really obvious personal attacks, but tackling the low-level sniping and pile ons that drain the life out of threads and discourage people from posting in the first place. That means more proactive involvement from us earlier in a thread, not just sweeping up afterwards.
One thing that really helps is reporting. There are around 25,000 posts a day on here, so we really don’t see that much in real time. If something feels off, please do report it. We promise to read things in context and we’d much rather step in early than let a thread spiral.
Most people on here genuinely want to give support or perspective. When that gets drowned out by needless nastiness, everyone loses. So thank you to everyone who’s raised this. We hear you, we agree with you, and we’re working on it."

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5442610-the-current-state-of-mn-and-how-do-i-stop-reading?reply=148524522&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Yes, I agree. I have been on MN a long time and it the current state of play is as you describe and the the collective faux moralising that accompanies this acts to exclude any dissenting voice and it is very boring and not worth engaging with.

I came on to say that! Both the awful racist posts, and the attacks on the disabled are blatant and disgusting, and definitely on the rise. The bigots have become emboldened and are shouting their ignorance and prejudice loud and proud.

Are MN mods going to do anything about the endless, awful, depressing ableist posts, all saying the same mean-spirited things, which pop up on here with distressing predictability every single day and quickly fill up with hundreds of ignorant and hateful comments?
Not only are they started by provocative and ill-intentioned posters who often don't return to the stinking dung heap they've deposited after their original post, but they attract the same ignorant, ableist posters who spout the same lies and misinformation about disabled people and, in particular, disability benefits repeatedly, despite countless posters turning up to patiently explain how the system actually works to them.
MN seems to view even the most extreme examples of ableist hate speech as legitimate debate.
In recent weeks I have reported a thread which advocated for forcably removing all disabled children and adults from their homes and families and placing them in large state run institutions in order to save the government money and several comments from a poster who stated, in no uncertain terms, that they believed the lives of disabled children were of lesser value and that, as these children were unlikely to grow up to be worthwhile members of society it would be best to euthanise them. Apparently neither of these broke MN's talk guidelines, given that, it is hard to imagine how terrible a comment about disabled people would actually have to be to be deleted.

I think one of the major issues is that you can't read tone through a screen - I've been on a couple of threads recently where innocuous replies have been taken as insults and then a slanging match has ensued.

You’ve reminded me of the sandwich thread. It may have been ‘Is this enough food for a 14 yr old?’, where posters wanted the OP’s dc to make their own lunch. Said DC had significant disabilities and wasn’t going to be able to make their own lunch. It became very entertaining.

I wonder whether people generally just don’t listen to each other. The number of times people answer a question that is not at all what you asked is frustrating. I don’t think it’s new though.

I suspect we are less resilient so move straight to sniping and bitterness instead of laughing about it.

Fairly new here. The meaness is very noticeable. I really can't understand what anyone gets out of it but they clearly get a lot! Almost every first reply to a thread rubbishes the poster.

I have got a lot to do in life atm so I'm here a lot but, like with Twitter, it'll feel too toxic soon and I'll be off.

I hope in the increase in moderating pile ons and the likes that MN will also start cracking down on outright misinformation in OPs.

There are a lot of deliberately goady threads atm without outright bullshit "information" in them. People claiming multiple carers allowances - not possible - people getting expensive cars on Motability and costing the tax payer extra - incorrect and costs the same in PIP as any other car, the person pays the extra from their own pocket - things like that are not open to interpretation or opinion. They are factually incorrect and the current stance of "well we let posters correct them" just looks like other people have a different opinion. Rather than it being clear it's factually incorrect.

Reflects the mood of the country. IMHO we are becoming an inward looking, mean spirited people.

There are so many attacks on disabilities, particularly autism and SEN children. Also lots of hate against the trans community. I don't have an issue with people having gender critical views but the line is really crossed on here to hate and shutting down and belittling anyone who doesn't agree with them. It's far nastier here than any other social media site I've used.

I’m pleased that the nastiness is being recognised, although whenever I’ve reported an issue MNHQ have dealt with it quickly 🙂
I’ve recently been really shocked by some posters’ viciousness about older women - the ageism and internalised misogyny can be brutal on here.

Absolutely, and the autism threads are no better. Every time someone posts about getting a diagnosis as an adult, posters pile on to tell them that they can't possibly be autistic because they're married, or have a child, or somehow manage to hold down a job - as though autism isn't a spectrum with everyone experiencing it differently.

I've posted several times under different usernames about my autism and how I can't work full-time - everyone tells me I'm lazy, or not trying hard enough, or that I can't be that autistic because I'm married. It's horrendous.

what might help there is if MN put a big bold note at the top of the OP with a link to the first post in the thread that corrects it.

The FWR board is one of the most civilised and intelligent forums on this site and one of the only ones anywhere where gender critical views are allowed to be expressed freely. The "hate" almost exclusively comes from TRA ploppers who turn up to wind people up and don't listen to any reasoned or reasonable responses they get.

They ARE however allowed to post. Try posting a GC view on Reddit and see how quickly you get banned..

Calling this hate is wilfully blind, untrue and totally in line with the "no debate" mantra we'd had from TRAs for the past decade. It's pure gaslighting.

There's probably some truth to this. MN was horrible during covid which was an international crisis, and the morale of the country now probably isn't that far off what it was like then.

IME (not on here) the worst are repeat offenders. It's possible to recognise them and keep an eye on them.

It does need a good supply of mods.

What is your experience of reporting a poster for being a goady twat across a thread rather than simply a single post?

I agree with all of this. The OP posts about some issue they need help or support with, and another poster grabs onto a side issue like a dog with a bone and won't let go. They just needle the OP for the sake of it. Then other people join in.

AIBU is there for a reason, and anyone posting on that needs to do so with their tin hat at the ready, but some folk seem to treat all posts the same way - an excuse to get their boots on and give someone a kicking.

then report report report

tbh i find it quite balanced, there have been threads recently about Reasonable Adjustments which have been extremely robust and the "hateful" (as in ignorant) comments have been roundly and soundly challenged.

IMO a lot of people (esp on FWR) blether on about "hate" but that is because people nowadays are completely unable to either countenance a view that doesn't match their own (let alone an opposite view) and are unable to have a normal conversation about it (let alone a robust one)

I wonder if it would help if MNHQ could get a better handle on dealing with previously banned posters? They seem to be able to come back again and again and again.

You've just give an example of how other opinions are shut down by denying my experience and telling me it's gaslighting.

Yes, that would certainly help.

Oh for goodness sake. People are allowed to disagree with you.

I'd like them to do away with AIBU altogether and people can just post their questions on another topic / thread. The whole purpose of AIBU is now a place to pile on and mock someone.

Part of me thinks MN likes them coming back as it drives traffic.

@JLou08 I disagreed with you not "shut down your opinion". THAT'S the sort of language that ruins threads.