Labour isn't working - Thread 17

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5436326-labour-isnt-working-thread-16?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Incredible. They’re hammering the private sector again. Ik some will be happy it’s not them but I doubt it won’t come round to bite as funding falls.

To be fair now, the public sector pensions are one huge pyramid scheme. Those who are retired now or are close to it are sitting pretty. You’ll find many Labour supporters there now. My teacher’s pension is shit in comparison to my husband’s private sector one. The workers of today are funding those who retired at 55 on full salary. The employee contributions which are crippling schools also go to the pensioners of today. The people working today in all of the public sector are constantly being screwed over to pay the bills of yesterday. It is no longer the draw it once was. Which is why the huge majority of teachers leave within 5 years. I am not staying for the pension. I may give up work if my husband drops days.

Remember, there is more that Reform people and Conservatives agree on than they disagree on.

I was Conservative member for 25 years and due to the likes of Caroline Noakes, Rory Stewart types the Conservative Party has not been able to operate as a Centre Right Party !

Regarding Conservative voting teachers:
My elder sister who is head of sixth form at Linc's Girls Grammar and a farmers wife has tried to hide her political beliefs for 25 years.
However, a trusted 'colleague' opened up her glove-box in her car and found a Reform Party Conference Lanyard and is 'jokingly' threatening to grass on her !

Although the end result defined benefit might be ringfenced, then wouldn't changes to annual allowances would have to impact everyone? So an increase in NI charges would surely apply across the board?

We're both public sector and I'm bracing for it after this morning's times article. Actually, that's a lie, I'm putting my fingers in my ears and telling myself to wait until the budget to see how bad it really is rather than worry about it now.

Absolutely. I remember when I first started teaching in 2000 all teachers applying for TLRs just before they retired (at 55) for their final salary. It’s all career average now and tied to state pension age (which is 68 for me currently). I do worry about my pension sometimes as I know so many younger teachers who are opting out so who will pay the pensions of Gen Xers?

Seriously? WTF.
I complained to dd's school last year, just before the election.
Her form tutor was constantly banging on about wonderful Labour, and it was driving dd and other pupils crazy.
Just for context, there are vastly different political views in our household, and dd is not even slightly interested in politics.
I emailed school and told them my thoughts on political views being rammed down the throats of students.
Funnily enough, school had a mock election, and Reform won.

I'd love to hear it.

I don’t think I’d ever vote reform but many colleagues talking openly about it now. We shouldn’t repeat the mistakes made all around the world of characterising reform/populist right voters as deplorable - my colleagues are hard working, private sector rational types who feel they see nothing in return for their taxes currently.

Characterising them as far right racist nutters isn’t going to persuade them any other party has their backs.

Labour likely think they’ll get away with pension NI I expect because people won’t notice the lower amount going into their pension overmuch…

From tax to jobs: how the UK economy has evolved under Rachel Reeves

www.thetimes.com/article/7f358123-f24a-43d9-bd5e-bbe1eaf8617d?shareToken=af287b4557cf3d0189761dca05ce808b

No-one the whole ponzi scheme of public sector pensions will collapse. The wealthy pensioners of today (on final salary) who are all patting themselves on the back for being virtuous - will be long gone. Having enjoyed ridiculously generous retirement at the expense of the youth and workers of today.

To be fair, the public sector are still able to have their pension contributions matched to 20%. That is, in the main five times the contribution match for the average worker in the private sector with a few outliers up or down from that. My last job was 3%. My DS is 10%. Some public sector workers can still retire early. By the sounds of it, I don't think we'll ever agree on this and I won't be convinced it's in the least bit fair that public sector pensions are protected from this and any other finacial jiggerypokery the govt see fit to force on the rest of us.

It’s all a con though. That’s the point. You don’t have 20% added to your pot. The schemes are all paying for the pensioners of today who retired at 55. It’s all smoke and mirrors. You can rest assured that public sector workers are on much, much poorer terms now and by the time they come to retirement the whole scheme will probably have collapsed.

The 20% matching is a con. It is crippling staffing costs in the NHS, defence and education. Many today will never see it. It’s not as great as you think which is why no-one stays for it anymore if they are qualified.

There is no pot. ALL of the money paid in goes to pensioners today. Not your own pot. The terms of the pension are always being changed and reduced. I really wouldn’t be worrying about it to be honest. It is also why I am using a SIPP and we are ploughing into my husband’s pension. One, I will probably leave teaching and two, I doubt I will even have a public sector pension despite paying in 10% a month. They will probably change it again.

Oh, I'll notice! Thieving barstewards, as it is, I'll be paying tax on my pension next year. How much more do these blood suckers want from me? I've paid tax and NI since I was 15 and apart from a 7year break to raise my son did so until I was 63, then I was self funded from savings as it was my choice and the fuckers taxed that too!

@redange I think you should get your post removed - too much identifying information?

Agree the one downside of DB schemes is they can change the rules, there is no guarantee you’ll get what you signed up for.

I was reminding some smug public sector lefties types who think their pensions are untouchable about this - you can go on marches etc but ultimately, db schemes can and are watered down. Db schemes can also redistributive to lower earners, a dc scheme is your own.

frankly, we feel we’re doing enough redistributing via tax without a db scheme taking upon itself to do more on our behalf.

Reeves does seem to have some sort of vendetta against pensioners, which is odd because presumably her parents are alive and of pension age.

I think they’ve cornered themselves and are just going scorched earth.

Are pension changes the kind of thing that make it more difficult over time? Ie for the next gov

ETA I say they because in all this I hold Starmer and Reeves accountable. He is just as if not more culpable.

They don’t care. The ones who are retired now are living it up on a pension only the youth of today could dream of. Easy to support Labour when you’re benefiting from it. The reality is their pensions are crippling the public sector now and will continue to do so. They will be long gone when the shit hits the fan. Any public sector worker now who hasn’t read the room and can’t see what is coming down the road, indeed, a fool. The whole system will collapse.

That's a good question. Were the Conservatives to include in their GE manifesto reversing Labour's punitive taxation of pensioners, they'd be on a winner I think.

For the sake of all pensioners dreading the Budget, my (probably vain) hope is Reeves is planning to target only those over a certain income threshold.

The non-working pensioners

I am beginning to see your points about die hard Labour supporters. Someone has just created a thread about knife crime and I agree with them - especially as I live in a high knife crime area (think I’ve posted before about the murders near where I live). Immediately the comments are “Tory bot”, “knife crime has reduced”. Why does an important issue have to be derailed into proving a poster wrong because of their (suspected) political allegiance?

Our cleaner would be a non-working pensioner if she could afford it, but she can't survive on her SP and tiny private pension. It's pensioners like her who worry most; she definitely doesn't have Reeve's definition of broad shoulders.

That 'Tory bot' accusation is just so fucking tired (and also against talk guidelines). They might as well just admit they don't have an argument.

Funnily enough, school had a mock election, and Reform won.

After the last election I remember someone saying they weren’t happy about Labour winning.
There was an instant pile-on - some of it very unpleasant - and I remember a couple of posters saying along the lines of ‘this was a democratic election. Don’t you like democracy”?
I imagine there won’t be much about liking democracy if the Tories or Reform win the next election.