If you could design an education system for children with ADHD and/or autism...

[TheRolyPolyBard]

... what would it look like?

I'm just curious. A family member is recently diagnosed and struggling in school. If you could design schools around the needs of these children, what would your imaginary school look like? What hours would they be in? What would classrooms look like? Would there be any classrooms?

Caveat: it needs to be affordable for the UK, so nothing too fantastic!

I'm wondering if a school system which suits NT and ND children is actually possible.

Totally possible! Smaller classes would make a big difference. For primary children learning through play for longer. Making using ear defenders, wobble cushions etc be seen as normal but phasing out in the last few years as children learn to self regulate.

Any changes to support ND children will either make no difference to NT children or will benefit them too. It just doesn't happen for some reason, which is a shame as it would mean children with 'mild'/ unseen ND would be supported without needing someone to realize that they were struggling

I'd remove the 2014 Gove curriculum reforms. If you look at the issues with SEND provision, the data screams 2014.

Teachers and schools lost so much scope to amend, to design around their kids. Kids lost the ability to gather self esteem from broader things than English and Maths performance.

And schools and teachers have had a mounting backdrop of assessment of their own performance, and despite the efforts of lots of good people, this has created hostile environments in some schools for the kids who don't always do well in tests, who can't be consistently good.

I don't think it's hard. More curriculum leeway, OTs and SLT provision to support kids who need to learn some additional skills. That's it.

One thing my DDs school did was in the first few weeks identify the children struggling with Secondary (changing classes, multiple teachers, noise etc), whether diagnosed as ND or not, and put them into one class together with the same people all day, less teachers etc. They then had time to settle before being reintegrated into the normal system in Yr8. Unfortunately it came from post-Covid funding so they can't do it anymore (that class is now Yr10).

My neighbours child cannot sit for long periods of time without a device glued to his face and just wants to climb, run, jump and smash things.

So perhaps multiple short sessions of exercise, outside in summer preferably to get vitamin d to help with natural melatonin production, with schooling in between.

https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/metrocenter/nest/resources/publications I would work with this approach.

One of the issues is that all ND children are not the same and do not have the same needs. I worked in a school once where there were two ND children in a class. The guidance for one (ASD) said clear instructions, structured predictable timetable, warnings of transitions etc. The other (PDA) needed flexibility, instructions presented as choices, more of a go with the flow approach. All fine. Except the warnings of transitions for child 1 would set off child 2.
Same with the class with one child who made random, unpredictable noises and one who was upset by random unpredictable noises.
Same as the class with one child who needed to fidget in order to focus, distracting the other child who couldn’t focus next to a fidgety child.
All the children’s needs, on paper, are easy to meet. But when they are put in the melting pot of a mainstream classroom become a minefield of competing needs.

Scrap dated suit style uniforms. Other countries manage to educate their children without office trousers, shirts and blazers, that no one wears in offices anymore anyway. Bring in school polo shirts, t-shirts and hoodies. Let kids wear whatever jeans, leggings, shorts or trackpants they are comfortable in. See also trainers.

The difference in my DD since she started college and has no uniform is huge. 100% attendance now she can dress for comfort and the weather.

Make all Secondary schools have an integrated resource. Allow students to do less gcses. Focus or getting enough qualifications to move through to the next stage of education rather than doing too many. Forest schools available at secondary level for those who would benefit from it. More importance on arts and practical subjects. Make more subjects not 100% final exam.
Some smaller secondary schools for those who just need a smaller environment. Playground equipment like climbing frames in secondary schools.

Smaller class sizes.
Less busy displays and not 17 of them.
Movement breaks.
More practical lessons.
Changes to the curriculum/expectations. For example joined handwriting, as long as it’s quick enough and legible it doesn’t bloody matter.
More options in secondary. Academic schools with profiles (where they learn more of X (STEM, humanities etc) and technical/trades schools.

For the kids that thrive on novelty to help them focus - Smaller classes with a heavy focus on hands on skills alternated with academic stuff. So allotmenteering/growing food and then a related academic subject, then cooking/baking and then a related academic subject. Constant variety, novelty and mixing things up to keep the kids engaged. A deeper dive on the subjects and areas that the kids show real interest or skill in. So celebrating the positives to build them up.

for the kids that struggle with change, quieter class rooms, smaller classes with extra support, consistency etc.

As a primary teacher, I'd start by changing the curriculum. The KS1 curriculum is packed full of far too much stuff that should be left until later. It's also largely knowledge-based so lots more listening and retaining facts rather than hands-om exploration.

I have two autistic DC of secondary ahe and at that level I just think there needs to be a whole lot more flexibility. The prison-camp Michaela style approach is not helpful for ND children at all.

We had these in the early 2000s before Gove’s reforms and forced academisation and “raising standards” by emptying parents’ bank accounts for blazers in a “fur coat and no knickers” education system that values the appearance of learning over actual education.

Michaela would NOT work for either of my autistic daughters. While one does need consistent boundaries, along with understanding staff who will enforce these but do it gently and with good humour... the other needs more nurturing as an approach and would absolutely turn into an anxiety driven school refuser desperately trying to follow all the rules.

DD2 is in a slightly smaller teaching group of kids who can be a bit socially less adept with the kinder natured teachers this year and that really seems to be paying off - although it's hard to have enough SEN to justify a "bright but needs some nurturing" type group in some school demographics.

That's the other hard part - those kids with ASD and ADHD who are also incredibly bright - there's a large gap in provision there. I was one of these, left undiagnosed till the age of 40+ and I was fucking miserable at school.

Building it around endless adjustments and allowances also has consequences.

The first wave of children who have had endless allowances made for their needs in school and college and university are beginning to hit the work market and it's been eye opening.

I'm in the legal profession, and Ive given mentoring to youngsters who want to become lawyers.

I did a careers fair once, and I had a young student telling me that she wanted to be a barrister, but her anxiety and autism meant she could never look anyone in the eye. She finds it too intense. She didn't look me in the eye once.

She was incensed to be told that this might not be the best career choice
That you could not go through the legal profession never looking anyone in the eye, including your client, your instructing solicitor the judge or the person you are cross examining.

I asked if she'd sought help for her anxiety and autism and she expected allowances to be made for her needs in the profession instead. She was indignant that she could be a great barrister without the ability to look anybody in the eye or at their face because of her social anxiety and neurodiversity.

I came across a 22 year-old trainee last year who couldnt speak on the phone in anyone else's presence and demanded a private room every time otherwise he would be unable to talk on the phone. At the suggestion that it wasn't going to work because you can't always guarantee when clients are going to call you. People can call you randomly without an appointment and so can defendant solicitors, etc. You won't always be able to dart to a private room.As they won't always be available. He instead began to raise that we weren't supporting his anxiety and neurodiversity and began quoting statutes at us and that we were breaching, equality rules relating to his disability.

It was also part of his training that we hear how he is on the phone with clients. And other people, it's part of the assessment we need to know what he's saying and the advice he's giving.

I would try and focus it more on not making endless adjustments for them. Because when they get into the working world, this is what they re going to face.

Many neurodiverse people are extremely bright and have the capability to enter top professions, but allowances aren't going to be made for them in the working world.And they need to understand that.

This doesn't apply to the children with significant needs, of course.

I dont think its possible. Some children will always need specialist provision.

I also dont think the challenge is a school for ND not working for NT, but a school that works for different presentations of ND.

i also think money is one of the big factors that have meant mainstream nd pupils have increasingly struggled. Like canaries in a mine, the ones with needs are signalling all is not right.

There are free things that can help too. Im not 100% defeatist.

i agree smaller classes (this is expensive) would help.

I agree taking a bit of content out the curriculum and a bit less high stakes testing (free)

More play would help, but SOME children who are nd need support to play and this needs to be built in (Free to low cost)

I think you could attempt to stream classes on sensory profiles as some children need calm and quiet, some need movement etc, some children are lethargic and need waking up, some are hyper and need calming. This might not cost more as its the same children distrubuted differently but it wouldn't work in tiny village schools.

Id also attach a SaLT and OT to every school and they would be in every week. Number of hours proportionate to the size of cohort.

Totally agree. My eldest, who has ASD, was (surprisingly!) offered a place at the 6th form college of his secondary school after very hit and miss engagement with GCSE revision. He decided to go to college, not only because he was very stressed at the prospect of ‘more of the same’ when it came to the dull learning format, but also because he hated wearing the school uniform. He said it felt like a straitjacket and made his skin crawl and that it was a huge distraction for him. No complaints in primary school when it was polo shirts and sweatshirts.

On the other hand there are quite a few autistic kids who like the routine of a school uniform and will wear it on a non-uniform day. You can also spot autistic students by looking at who keeps their blazer on in the summer.

There isn't any one particular style of education which will suit ASD or ADHD any more than any other pupils because they continue to be individuals.

So much could be solved through early intervention. Get things right early on and give children a settled and happy start to school. Quicker access to support, more high quality play based , smaller classes. A lot of the problems we see are children who have not had their needs met early on, I honestly believe if we put money in the correct places it actually wouldn’t necessarily cost more in the long wrong. Like someone said earlier, teaching children how to regulate early on So much is spent putting things right but if we got things right earlier there would be less to put right . I also agree with other things people have said. Accepting different environments suit different children, ridiculous uniform expectations with no reasonable adjustments. It wouldn’t fix everything but I would help a lot.

It depends entirely upon their needs but plenty of the existing smaller independent mainstream schools are known for being ideal places for ND children who are academic but struggle with the sensory side of things. Many of the children there might not even be diagnosed but their parents will know they are sensitive, quiet, quirky, shy, anxious etc when in reality they are ND.

I also dont think the challenge is a school for ND not working for NT, but a school that works for different presentations of ND.

I would agree. The Scottish primary my children attend has a lot of the things mentioned here. Movement breaks (yoga/dodgeball/running) across the day, polo shirts/tshirts/joggers/hoodies/trainers all acceptable, smaller classes (17 I think in dc2's), plenty of play and outdoor time beyond that, practical lessons (i.e. running a cafe for the community and dealing with money/taking drink orders etc) and streaming for certain activities like reading so the groups are even smaller and an achievement board where the entire school is celebrated for something they achieved in or out of school.

And yet they still struggle to balance competing needs.

I think taking a long hard look at what ‘inclusion’ actually means in the real world would be a start. Many ND children can be successful in mainstream schools with some extra support, and that should be enabled wherever possible. But it has become ridiculous. In my local authority the lack of places in special schools means that children with severe needs are being placed in mainstream. Spending your days walking around the school being tailed by a TA is not inclusion, following a completely different curriculum is not inclusion, having to have an adult with you at all times is not inclusion. Children becoming so distressed that they are a risk to themselves and others is not inclusion. I have worked in more than one school where a child spends their whole time in a room alone with a TA because they are unable to access the main school. Not inclusion, and not right.
If we stop pretending that one type of school should be able to meet the needs of every single child then perhaps we can have a real conversation about what can be done.

I'd include lots of opportunity for exercise, fresh air, vocational skills. It allows for calm, quiet, space, green.

Practical, hands on skills with immediate visible, tangible results. As much flexibility as possible.

Obviously it wouldn't suit all children but our standard education system is so rigid and allows so little scope for breathing space.

My DGD went to an amazing sen school. They have lots of pet dogs. Encouraged her in her music one to one lessons. Chilled atmosphere. Uniform optional. Everything tailored to the individual.

I’d do:
much softer, sensory friendly uniforms (maybe just a T-shirt with a logo and Joggers.
flexible school hours available if needed.
A range of flexible seating options available in every classroom.
Change the curriculum to make it more based on curiosity, discovery, independent study, discussion and reasoning rather than on regurgitating random facts.
Play based learning until at least 7 and elements of play, exploration and self-chosen projects after that.
more funding for pastoral staff in school so teachers can actually focus on teaching.
fully staffed nurture spaces in school that dysregulated children can access to be supported when the need arises.
Classrooms that are more comfortable, welcoming and allow the children to move if and when they need to.
Closer links between home schooling and attending school so that home schooled children can still access social/practical groups at school (or run by the school in a community space) turn to a local school for advice and support and access online learning courses provided by a home school department within some local schools. So that children who feel unable to cope with learning inside of the building don’t end up with a stark choice of “force yourself to come in and do as we say or homeschool and cut all contact with us”.

This, 100%.