If you could design an education system for children with ADHD and/or autism...

[TheRolyPolyBard]

... what would it look like?

I'm just curious. A family member is recently diagnosed and struggling in school. If you could design schools around the needs of these children, what would your imaginary school look like? What hours would they be in? What would classrooms look like? Would there be any classrooms?

Caveat: it needs to be affordable for the UK, so nothing too fantastic!

I'm wondering if a school system which suits NT and ND children is actually possible.

Sorry I meant to tag @Needlenardlenoo and got names muddled.

I agree with a pp there is no one type of autistic child however there are different approaches that can make a huge difference. Our setting wouldn't suit all children.

Funding increased up until 2014 and then had started to rise/maintain again until 2024. The issue is that taxpayers aren't prepared to pay what is required to improve school funding.

Our secondary school (independent ms) seems to have cracked this. Small classes, lots of flex, ability to modify curriculum as needed so if a dc can’t cope with French they can drop that subject and do their homework in those lessons instead if the school agree that’s needed. No uniform, no school bells, can take a packed lunch and they can eat it in a few different places (no need to go into a smelly school canteen). Pastoral spaces and a proper sensory room. Counsellors who are based at the school and communicate with teaching staff.

I think it would probably work out cheaper for the economy in the long run to put dc through this kind of system in state schools if that means they come out emotionally stable and able to work, than for them to be in schools that don’t work for them or unable to attend due to EBSA, then struggling more mentally and unable to work for decades, accessing mental health services, needing financial support.

This sounds amazing @JigsawPuzzlesAreFab. You will be making such a lifelong difference to these dc

Yes but that requires much more funding.

It would be ideal if we could have specialists funded like this.

@JigsawPuzzlesAreFab I agree but 15 places in this setting would be cheaper than x 15 EOTAS for example. So it really would save in the longer run, not to mention reducing NHS costs and unemployment benefit costs.

I think we need to be really brave and actually accept that inclusion in the 90s wasn’t properly funded and create more specialist places set up like our school, which would actually ironically ultimately reduce costs!

Oh absolutely compeltely agree wholeheartedly. And saves the students having to repeatedly "fail" and experience the difficult journeys they do and the fight the parent has to put up to the access anything.

I would love to (help) run one of these. There is a lack of joined up thinking in the system....

Absolutely.

It hasn't increased per pupil - it's fallen. Your graph shows that clearly.

The costs have risen at the same time so the per pupil spend doesn't go as far as it did (by far the most important cost schools face is labour, which is much more expensive than in 2014 because of various government policies).

The only long term solution to any of this is economic growth, from the supply side, with increased productivity.

Sadly that requires education and training that matches what is actually needed.

Would it though, because teachers like the poster would expect to be paid, but a regular poster on here who has three DC with EOTAS reports that much of her time is spent trying to force her LA to pay invoices.

That's partly why a lot of AP is provided for-profit, as those big companies can actually force the public sector to pay its bills.

The claim was that 2010 saw the highest funding level, the graph shows that isn't the case ie it didn't really drop significantly until 2016/17 but from 2020 had increased again.

That was the point.

@Needlenardlenoo I’ve not seen this poor poster’s posts but please tell her to call IPSEA or SOSSEN as they can explain how to tell the La she will take non payment for EOTAS to a judicial review and my understanding from the SN Jungle article on this is that there is over 90% compliance where LAs receive the special letter that needs to be sent before bringing the action.

SNJ article on JR

I think to change schools there needs to be structural change around them. I’d like successive governments to stop lying to us that kids’ needs are metor ever can be met in mainstream. I’d like successive governments to fund SEND education properly so that all kids can simply access their right like every other child had, get to an education. I’d like all political parties to stop whipping up anti- disabled people sentiment which they all seem to be doing. By the way if you vote Reform or Tory, and if they then dismantle the Human Rights Act as they say they will, then SEND kids trying to get an education will be completely stuffed.

There needs to be support for parents and siblings being ground down by the lack of SEND support and around the whole often drawn out and antagonistic experience of going through the EHCP system.

There needs to be a long term strategic government plan and a serious think about how SEND families’ experience of constant unjust opposition by authorities like schools and local councils, and health and community and social services, simply in order to save money, affects their trust in official situations and institutions going forward. The gaslighting is a highly alienating experience and that’s not even counting the sexism aimed at expectations of mothers of SEND kids and the racism we already know is often already baked into these systems.
https://www.ipsea.org.uk/blog/black-children-with-send-are-being-disproportionately-affected-by-unlawful-exclusions

There should be some kind of family restitution fund for all the work, opportunities and jobs lost by family adults as a result of EBSA and/or where no suitable educational provision is on offer from the local authority at all, or is not available for a child to attend for years. Which happens to a lot of parents. Supply in no way matches need.This has a serious negative long term effect on family finances and the financial security of the whole family.

Oh she is an expert. But having worked as a freelancer in a past life, needing to get e.g. NHS trusts and universities to pay me what to them were piffling small amounts, I'd much rather be on the payroll of an AP than be e.g. an EOTAS tutor.

Agree that 13 is too young to be choosing a pathway, 15/16 is far better for that, but with a lot of time in the curriculum for practical subjects before that

My hope is that eventually there will be documentaries like the ones that finally broke open the Post Office, and the infected blood scandals. So that the general public understand the scale of wrongdoing and the damage.

Yet what we have is media publicity about how expensive the send bill is, cost of transport and talk of "reforms"....

There's been quite a lot of well-informed articles too. And the Westminster Hall MP debate was amazing. Those MPs are well-informed.

Unfortunately it seems to be one of those areas of life people don't get unless they've personally been through it. And the swing to the right isn't helping at all.

Every SEND child is different and therefore trying to create a school that suits everyone is an impossible task.

I would like to see more support (financial and non-financial) for home education. Parents shouldn't be penalised for keeping SEND children at home when school gets too difficult. I still can't fathom why the Government pay for childcare hours offered by third parties but not by the parents or grandparents - to me that is penalising those children who would be better off in a quieter environment with a relative rather than in a noisy nursery.

Those with needs that are not met in mainstream school could be offered much more in the way of free (or Government grants to pay for) online resources and access to home education groups for practical activities and outings, forest school, sport, arts and music, etc. As these children get older, the access should be to functional skills (in maths and English, etc) and more practical activities that could lead to jobs etc, such as carpentry, plumbing, mechanics, gardening, computer studies, business studies, without requiring GCSEs etc. For those that do want to sit GCSEs, this should be available free of charge at local centres!

An extension to this would be support for flexi-schooling in specialist provision. Obviously flexi-schooling in mainstream is problematic as it is disruptive to other children, but in an ND setting it could function as a drop-in type centre to back up an online provision. I taught at FE level many years ago and we had a free drop-in centre for computer studies. Visitors who pre-booked hourly sessions, were provided with one-to-one support by a couple of teachers during college hours. It worked really well and was very successful until fees for Higher Education were introduced.

Offering alternatives to mainstream school and curriculum is imperative to the mental health of our children. We need to prepare them for the world of work and not expect the outside world to adapt to their every need.

I didn't realise myself until I read an article on Special Needs Jungle that the majority of children receiving free transport to school (2/3rds) don't have SEND. They live in rural areas mostly.

The biggest thing for me would be quiet spaces and times and a settled timetable. It’s the chaos and noise that is overwhelming. ND children have to be able to handle change but they don’t thrive on it.

I had a very old fashioned private education with these as a given. My (ND) DC had a more progressive state education and I think I was better off.

The curriculum needs changing more learning through play at primary level, more outdoors, less pressure. Less testing. Less sitting still the children being punished because they literally cannot sit still is ridiculous. Starting formal education later 6/7- Children with asd are often socially 2 years behind their peers. The education system is a one size fits all and it’s not working. Smaller class sizes or separate units for children with Sen.
Secondary school is to much change every lesson is a different place. A massive part for me is staff training the lack of education from some teachers and teaching assistants is huge.
As a Sen parent having the right teacher makes the world of difference for that school year. More therapeutic learning, emotional educational, understanding feelings, life lessons, how to have conversations, understanding phrases and social cues.
Scrap the uniforms.
Stagger lunch and break times the noise is overwhelming for many children in lunch halls and playgrounds.
Offer more lunchtime clubs.
The list goes on!

Yes because there's no/little public transport in those areas. We are rural and have no buses + the nearest bus stop is a 2 mile walk on roads with no pavements and no lighting. So all the DC from our village + surrounding ones get free transport otherwise they couldn't get to school/home at the times the school require.

I believe some schools in America have something called ‘special ed’, and it’s basically a class for kids across a few year groups with additional needs who can’t cope in mainstream but for whatever reason aren’t in a specialist school. Probably a funding/ spaces issue.
I’ve seen those classes have different chairs for fidgeting, more hands on learning. Ear defenders available. Sensory corners. Sensory breaks / activities interwoven through the day. Extra playtime.
Lots of focus on social skills/ rules etc. Healthy eating which is often an issue. Activities focusing on being part of community. Higher teacher/TA ratio… I imagine 1-to-1s in this setting can actually be a 1-to-1!!

Different academic expectations but possibly still higher than they’d be in a specialist school. If they make lots of progress, they may one day be ready to return / begin the mainstream class. It’s not forever and there’s flexibility which seems great. There may be times they need more focus on just coping with the environment. It may not be like this in all schools, and I don’t think all offer it, but I remember seeing something about it online and thought how much better it would be if we could have something similar. So many children with additional needs really aren’t suited to mainstream schooling but due to funding are forced into it and it’s to the detriment of everyone. This seems like a happy medium.