If you could design an education system for children with ADHD and/or autism...

[TheRolyPolyBard]

... what would it look like?

I'm just curious. A family member is recently diagnosed and struggling in school. If you could design schools around the needs of these children, what would your imaginary school look like? What hours would they be in? What would classrooms look like? Would there be any classrooms?

Caveat: it needs to be affordable for the UK, so nothing too fantastic!

I'm wondering if a school system which suits NT and ND children is actually possible.

Oooh that's interesting. I've been so fed up of the negative press I've seen recently.

I don't have any experience of negotiating SEND education (beyond special adjustments for exams) but have a feeling its even worse then dealing with School Appeals and Transport. And those were tricky enough (and the ways they would find dto wriggle out of paying if they could).

I dont think there are many special schools in America
I'm in a Facebook group for parents of children with severe Autism and learning disabilities
It appears most of their children are educated in special ED classes in mainstream school it's to do with inclusion
This is what I have been told anyway.

It depends so much on the profile of the child, but I would certainly start with smaller class sizes, bigger classrooms and fixed classrooms for each form that teachers move between so far as possible.

Here's the article:

NAO: Government must boost school transport data and ensure SEND plans don’t make it harder to attend - Special Needs Jungle https://share.google/BeSMk3mgZ0Awmq7QK

We wouldn't want to copy their system because school funding is raised in the area of the school. We do a lot of cross subsidy in the UK.

It does explain though how we once received a child into a mainstream independent school I taught in (in the UK) who it turned out had been receiving essentially a special school education in a mainstream school in the US. That was one awkward transition!

@Needlenardlenoo that is very interesting on transport. I would also like the message to say “As special schools are now few in number and so SEND children are unlikely to close to a suitable school place, LAs are having to pay for transport”

I teach at a v.v.v. expensive boarding school which does a lot of the things people are talking about.

• Class sizes are smaller. 25 for students who find the subject easier and down to 6 for those who find it harder / need more support.
• large campus with 5 minutes to move between lessons
• large grounds which gives opportunities for outside learning
• lots of sports and physical activity, main team sports but also canoeing, swimming, climbing, dance, horse riding, clay shooting ….
• lots of co-curricular activities from bush crafts to D&D to knitting to F1 fan club
• Flexible number of GCSEs taken, standard is 10 but can reduce down to 7
• All teachers have physical first aid training and about 30% have mental health first aid training
• health centre on site with nurses full time, counsellors (counselling is considered normal), doctors hold surgery twice a week after school.
• School has recently become a trauma informed school, compassion before correction
• School regularly wins awards for pastoral care and support of bereaved students

Did I mention it is V.v.v expensive! Even if you took off some of the shiny parts and the boarding it would still cost a lot of money. Significantly more than the government is prepared to spend per pupil.

We do have a large number of SEN students, often those whose needs would not be ‘bad’ enough to get much if any support at mainstream schools. We are not a special school so can’t cope/ aren’t set up to deal with high needs but are very good for mild/moderate ones.

*it is not an educational utopia (no where is) and won’t suit everyone.

Lots of the changes made in classrooms are the result of research - tables, rows, horse shoes etc. I'm not saying that it is always right but my experience in many many inset days is that teachers/SLT are always striving for the 'fix'. Ideally a cheap, easily implemented fix that will result in immediately improved results that will have an impact on league tables asap. There's a book published, or a lecture attended that suggests improved results for X (often vulnerable) cohort and then we get an inset day and are encouraged to do it as policy. It's never done thoughtlessly but I think the way the education system works encourages the idea of sticking plasters rather than root and branch reform.

Unfortunately, what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander, despite our best hopes...

Or on the other hand, not wearing their blazer in winter (my ASD daughter).

I’d definitely do away with the rigid uniform. That’s the one thing that would make a huge difference to my daughter. But as has been said all ND people have different requirements. Eg Mine needs more movement, less noise so putting her in a class with others that move around a lot/ might make lots of noise would not work. Adding playground equipment to secondary schools would help. More frequent breaks. Smaller classes. Actually separate breaks so it’s not crowded would also help. OT for and speech therapy as standard for all ND kids.

The Sutton Trust meta reviews show clearly what does work and what doesn't and ranks interventions by effectiveness (smaller class sizes has a much smaller effect than effectiveness of teacher, for instance - and uniforms are neither here nor there).

If they turned their attention to SEN it would be interesting.

They're focused on socioeconomic disadvantage though.

And wearing shorts in winter!

Why OT and SALT for all ND? My son has adhd but didn’t need either. It would be a complete waste of time and money. On the other hand some NT would benefit from either/or of them.

Should be on need not diagnosis.

Should be more available, that I definitely agree on.

A bit similar in my country too. We have special ed teachers (at DS's primary school there's one for the first 3 year groups, another for the next 2, and another for the oldest ones) and they work with children in small groups as needed, sometimes children can choose themselves to go work with the special ed teacher (perhaps they want to work in a quieter room for instance), other times its decided by staff. That's for the ones that can mostly manage in mainstream classes and their level of support rises and falls as their needs change. Then there's a completely separate class, in a smaller building next to the school, where they have their own learning goals tailored to each child and they can stay there for the whole of school (so don't need to change schools when moving up to upper school), very nurturing from what I hear (though don't have a child in the class so can't know for sure) and they do a lot of trips. They join in with the main school for events and suchlike.

All children get evaluated by the special ed teacher when they start school, and then again as needed. That's how we found out DS needs a special pen rather than using a pencil like everyone else - I thought he was just reluctant to write because he'd rather do something else but actually it was the sound and feel of pencil on paper that hurt his ears.

That’s very interesting about Sutton Trust. How can we get them to research ND pupils needs?

You can't, that's not their interest area or stated aim. They are really only focused on high potential DC from disadvantaged backgrounds.

We'd need a weathy entrepreneur with SEN kids I think (Sir Peter Lampl set up Sutton Trust).

Honestly, a lot of kids struggles escape when they move from primary school to high. I would keep things more primary ‘based’ for ND kids. Specifically having the teachers move about every period, not the pupils.

How do you suggest a science lab works in that scenario? They have a pop up one at the back.So the children don't have to move.

Goodness you are hostile. It was just a general off the top of my head reply. I wasn’t suggesting it was the absolute solution. That said, not moving the children every period doesn’t necessarily mean not moving them any period.

We had it for Y7 after Covid and kept it for a year afterwards. All lessons in one building with the exception of practical classes, so they weren't siloed off entirely. It also reduced the noise and crowding in the corridors at lesson changeovers, making it feel much calmer and safer around pinchpoints such as stairs.

The main issue appeared to be staff felt too unsettled and uncomfortable teaching in rooms that weren't their own and having to move around site, carrying their resources with them, using computers and IWBs that had been used by others that day, so they were unable to settle into teaching.

Yes, I know.

It's a life skill for children to figure out where they need to go. Both for neurodiverse and neurotypical.

All of the suggestions on here are a breeding ground for those having all of their needs catered to whilst not enabling them to take any responsibility or to learn to cope and navigate life.

If you read the post, I wrote on my first page, children who have had endless adjustments made in this way are now entering the work market and its eye opening what they expect employers to tolerate. Employers aren't going to tolerate it.

Ah yes, let’s force them all to conform regardless.

Wait though, perhaps that’s the reason ND people like myself who do enter the workforce after a traumatic time at school found ourselves struggling and eventually failing.

just a thought.

PP is at least being realistic. School is to get skills to take part in the workforce. Unless you plan on raising a generation of ND entrepreneurs and sole traders, conformity is required in employment. It's self-employed, employee or employer for the working population and it's not a great market for anyone at the moment so the ability to conform will be even more important.

The elephant in the room with special ed/"hub" type mixed schooling to support SEN kids in mainstream settings is bullying (from the mainstream kids to the hub ones, to be clear).

In no universe is being a "hub" kid going to make it easier to assimilate socially into the mainstream class for the section of time that you spend there, regardless of how much support in communication styles you receive.