Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

I think a lot of this is down to the way the NHS was run down for 14 years. People were left on ever increasing waiting lists, just getting worse and worse. With earlier treatment, many might well not have ended up with disabilities.

There's also the issue of employers and their short term thinking - incentives are needed to encourage employers to emply and retain disabled people in work. The drive to make people physically return to the office 5 days a week for jobs that can be done from home does not help.

Austerity is at the root of the current situation, alongside the fallout from the pandemic. And it's going to take investment and societal change to sort it, not more taking money from people who are already vulnerable.

Which disabilities would you reclassify so the person is in your view no longer disabled? As thats what you’re asking really isn’t it.

I dont know. Or if that's the answer. That is what I'm asking.

I know a number of folk, including myself who have health conditions, work isn’t an option, myself mid stage Parkinson’s, another with ever changing epilepsy.
Anxiety and depression treatable, need resources to tackle it

Yes, I agree entirely, but that's going to cost money and no-one will vote for it. See the panic here today about a rumoured tax increase.

And taking it away from kids.

It hasn't been put in the OP but I've got my bingo card out.

You do know what you are asking you are asking are "they disabled enough" for my tax money .

I’m very protective of disability benefits. Likely because my son receives them and will for the rest of his life.

I’d sooner look at other areas of unemployment of people who can work and the amount that costs us in benefits, or crack down on people who claim unemployment benefits but actually do work.

I think of all the things we pay for in this country, education, elderly care and disability support should be the last things we cut, and I’d happily pay more for.

You can't have a sensible discussion because there will be a pile on where people will give examples of the most extreme disabilities and claim you mean those people. Then the thread will descend into chaos.

I’m more right leaning and I agree with everything you said about needing the welfare state and caring for vulnerable members of our communities. I also have a debilitating anxiety disorder that has, in the past, turned in to agoraphobia and anorexia. Although I never claimed benefits, I would do if i relapsed in the future, because I’ve paid in to the system for 25 years.

I would much rather our taxes go to people who need it on our country, than giving millions in aid to other countries and the people of other countries.

We should pay our bills first, then charity with what ever is left. And there would still be plenty to give charitably once our NHS, housing and education systems were fixed.

No, I'm actually not. I'm one of the few who would vote for increased taxes to improve the circumstances of those most in need, but as no party who suggests that in an manifesto ever wins, it doesn't matter what I think.

You think paying 10% of working age people disability benefits is correct and sustainable?

And this is what the OP tried to stop by asking for a sensible conversation.
It's the equivalent of being called racist if you dare question immigration

OP I dont know what the answer is, but I fully agree. It's not sustainable. We've had a massive pandemic of over-diagnosis and pathologising different personality types and calling them disorders - ADHD for example. That hasn't helped

The partial issue, actually the biggest issue is the rise in mental health conditions that affect day to day life. Better support at an earlier stage could in some cases mean they do not qualify for help because they are not as affected. I think people should get support to level the playing field, pip and dla are meant to cover the costs of being disabled, but in some cases better treatment and support is needed not cash benefits

Do you genuinely believe that medical professionals are diagnosing people with neurodiversity that they don’t have, just to keep them happy and give them a label?

10% is very low. Around 23% of working age adults are classed as disabled.

According to this: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9602/

I am a disabled person in receipt of some benefits i can no longer work but to look at me you would think I would be "able" enough, strip me of my benefits would leave me vulnerable, I don't know why "you" would want that for another human being.

I don't understand what you're trying to get from this post.

You think 10% is too much. What percentage would be acceptable to you?

This type of thread generally boils down to people wanting the line drawn at what they consider to be "proper" disabilities, along with people knowing for "an absolute fact" of 10 people irl who have cheated the system and are falsely claiming PIP and living la vida loca on it.

I am a medical professional and yes, I do know that is happening. There is a huge amount of research now about the over diagnosis which makes diagnosis almost meaningless. Have a read, it's fascinating. Some very high up paediatricians recently did presentations on it. They're much cleverer than me and explain it so much better

I am disabled from a hidden disability; I used to work until I couldn’t anymore.

My DS is in receipt of DLA. He’s autistic with “anxiety”. Except the thing is, he’s not just a little bit anxious, he has selective mutism (an anxiety disorder) and another serious anxiety disorder, alongside his autism which affects his communication.

I want him to work (he’s 16 and in a special school). He wants to work. He’s been to seven interviews for low paid, low skilled jobs in the past week. In every one, he was unable to talk and the interviewers cut the interview short, obviously he hasn’t gotten the jobs.

Anxiety is treatable. Autism is not. There’s a huge crossover between autism and anxiety. My DS is likely to be the one not eligible for PIP now as he’s just ‘anxious’. The reality is very different.

The rhetoric that the disabled are just lazy people scamming the system and the media targeting disabled people is frankly disgusting. The benefits bill is huge, but PIP is extremely hard to get and the very people spouting benefit fraud, admit that the actual rate of fraud is minuscule because the benefit is so hard to get!

It can’t be both ? So which is it? Either it’s far too easy to get and people are scamming the system (which would result in large scale fraud figures) or it’s so hard to get that fraud is minimal. In which case, why target disabled people?

People need to do their research on benefits rather than relying on tabloids spouting rubbish about free cars.

brilliant thought provoking post OP 👏

I’ve followed the paediatric diagnostic process for both autism and ADHD.. twice.

Privately and with the NHS.

Why or how anyone would suffer that absolute rigamarole, for an issue they didn’t have, is absolutely beyond me.

My eldest (20) gets PIP and my 12 year old gets DLA. We're currently throwing fivers into the fire just for the lolz

💃🏽 🕺💃🏽🕺

We seem to have an unusually sick society compared to many other European countries so we need to fix that. And it won’t be quick

we may need more data on the breakdown of the various problems and causes -

invest in the NHS Including the mental health side

invest in preventative care

food and diets - lots of restrictions/ taxes on junk food and a change in how we view poor diets - think of how we tackled smoking and made that socially unacceptable and slashed lung cancer deaths

probably a lot more cities with car congestion charges to improve air quality and get people moving themselves

ans why are children coming out with so many mental health problems that children in other counties don’t seem to have - that’s a feeling

Also it isn't as easy as people think to claim disability benefit.