Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

‘ very high up paediatricians recently did presentations on it. Much cleverer than an actual Medical Professional and explain it so much better.’
well I look forward to seeing the outcome of their proper grown up research and how it saves the country money. Because of course it’s the disabled who are bleeding this country dry and turning it into a dystopia where even the ‘proper leftys’ and real life actual ‘medical professionals’ are turning against some of the most vulnerable and marginalised fellow men (and women)

It is a really interesting conversation, and one I am engaged in, as my DS has a physical disorder which may well mean he finds it hard to get work later in life. I don’t know if 10% is high or low. Is it more than 20 years ago? If it is, maybe it is because our neoliberal system is crippling more and more people through mental and physical disorders. How can we get to the bottom of it?

We’re currently trying to get rebanded to high rate DLA for both components.

Tenners in the fire if that works out for us!

Genuine question and I am not trying to be goady - if you think 10% is shockingly high, what kind of percentage seems reasonable? It seems low to me, but high to you, so why are our perceptions so different?

😂

Do you have any links?
I heard an article on the radio recently about people in Sweden (think it was Sweden) trying to get a diagnosis of ND removed.
Name changed for this bit.
I'm in my 50s but as a child I was 'diagnosed' with epilepsy. I didn't have it, I did have a lying mother though who also made me lie to doctors so that she could get disability benefits for me. It very nearly prevented me getting a driving licence.

A lot of the increase in people claiming disability benefits is because it's become so hard to claim other benefits.

20, 15, even 10 years ago, someone with eg fluctuating MH issues could muddle along earning what they could when they could, and claiming tax credits and housing benefit to make up any shortfall. Housing benefit wasn't conditional, it was solely income based. And tax credits were very light touch compared with UC.

UC is such a punitive system that muddling along is not possible anymore. So people are pushed into claiming disability benefits when previously they wouldn't have needed to.

Same with children and DLA. Schools are less and less suited to ND children - but if they can't go to school, their parents can't go to work, and if the parent leaves their job they face sanctions from UC. Unless, of course, the child gets DLA so the parent can be down as a carer and have no work commitments on UC.

The rising of the state pension age will have something to do with it. As people age, they are more likely to become disabled. Pip can only be initiated when you are below pension age, and for women it has risen from 60 to coming up to 67. I’m legally disabled and work full time at 60, but I’m not eligible for PIP. It’s a hard benefit to get.

Too much focus on mental health in my opinion.

And this heinous outlook that whatever is wrong in our lives the Government has to fix it/pay for it.

I’m not sure it is possible to have a sensible discussion about it really.

Id like to see much more effort put in to making society and employment more accessible for disabled people.

I don’t want to see young people in particular, who may indeed have disabling mental health problems, shut out of the workplace, but supported into it in any way possible.

I’d like to see a more society wide and much less individualistic approach.

I agree the current situation isn’t sustainable at all and I think there is going to be a horrible economic reckoning at some point - disabled people should absolutely not bear the brunt of that just because governments won’t think long term or make difficult choices. I also think austerity has a lot to answer for.

OK, ilI guess I should have known better, but not "allowing" people to question things like this are how we end up with people like Farage and he's going to be no friend to anyone in need.

Do you expect people to magically stop being disabled or having long term conditions?

Too many people just blindly accept the narrative from the right wing media and some politicians that claim that disabled people are scroungers.

Ridiculous to scapegoat people who are just trying to get the support they need and live their life with basic dignity.

We have an ageing population and a shit NHS and poor access to mental health service and social care.

Employers are also reluctant to employ people who declare mental and physical long term conditions or to help them stay in employment. That is hardly talked about but that is the reality.

This is so accurate, the over 50s are the highest percentage of PIP claimants closely followed by the over 60s.

But I never said they are bleeding the country dry - YOU said that.
FWIW I work in the ASD field as a clinician (NHS) and I also have a T1 diabetic so who we get DLA for!

Both things can be true at once. There is an explosion of diagnosis and we have to wonder what it's about and when personality traits become disorder that requires benefits.
But then there are people like you being chronically offended before that conversation can even happen

I don't think disabled people are scroungers at all and I firmly believe they should be supported. I do think it seems highly unlikely that no one amoung 4m claimants is playing the system.

I agree - you put it better than I could - so many people seem unable to grasp the concept that ultimately, they are responsible for their own lives, not the government.

I think poverty is a big issue. If my future was a hard, boring job and my only reward for doing it was poverty, I'd be depressed and anxious as well.

What did you want to discuss?

Is 10% too much - no, not if that’s how much support is needed.

Should we cut certain types of disability benefit or redefine what is severe “enough” to receive them - no, it’s already difficult enough.

Would it be acceptable to redefine the parameters of those benefits - no, not if one single person who needed them would no longer receive them.

Personally I think the country deserves farage. The almighty tax payer who think they are safe while they whinge about supporting the lesser than them.

A bit of hire and fire at will might give them something to focus on.

Do you know. You’re bang on.

Just as soon as my kid has finished smearing his shit up the walls, I’ll tell him to be responsible for his own life.

It needs to start with having investment into NHS services.

One of my DDs has an illness which has a lifelong impact on her. However, treatment makes life doable.

It took 6 GP appointments to be referred. 11 months wait to see the neurologist. 6 months after that for the tests needed. 3 months more for results, an appointment for treatment options and treatment to begin. Nearly 2 years.

The worsening stopped when she started medication. However they cannot go back and undo the progress made in that nearly 2 years. She, I, and her currently specialist (she doesn't live in the Uk anymore) believe that with prompt treatment she'd be in a much better state. Dd firmly believes she'd be able to work full time and live a far more "normal" (her words) life if she'd had medication much sooner.

Before meeting her husband and leaving the UK she was on PIP and ESA. I'd bet many more people have ended up on disability benefits due to a lack of prompt treatment and care.

You can't start cuts to welfare without ensuring people have good access to healthcare, good access to education and good access to support with those things imo.

This. Oh and don't forget the posters who think you are lying if you say you know someone who is claiming fraudulently.

This!
And when it comes to MH related disabilities like anxiety, depression and also non severe autism and ADHD this should be treated quickly by the NHS so the individual can feel better and be a productive member of society. It's actually detrimental to mental health to not be working. Being on benefits will only further isolate individuals who need psychological help rather than just money.

Oh Farage is also asking these questions, why do you think he isn't ?

I dont know what you would consider a reasonable level of disability though. There isnt a cap on it. There's so much that can go wrong with the human body.

We do have criteria for disability benefits, that try to limit the number of people awarded benefits to those with very specific care and mobility needs. Not all disabled people get benefits, and those that do get varying amounts depending on severity.

The only way to limit it further is to have even stricter criteria or means test.

There's not really any other conversation to have.