Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

The article says about PIP. PIP is not an out of work benefit. You can work and claim PIP
You can also work and claim LCWRA but that is UC and people have reviews about their finances on it as it is means tested.

Thats fine then isn't it. Nothin to hide means look all you like.

Yes, you can. But if you claim for anxiety and say you are to anxious to work (how else "prove" that you have debilitating anxiety) it's not like when you have a physical condition.

In my job I come across many people currently unemployed and in receipt of disability benefits who might feel better if they were in work, and would actually like to be in work. But where are the employers that will take someone with no recent work history and who may not interview well? Who would offer a decent job to someone without experience who may need a lot of support or time off, at least initially?

The jobs market is really competitive at the moment and most jobs at the lower end are stressful, time pressured and often shift work/zero hours. Even the interview process is much more complicated than it used to be. Without real government intervention to incentivise employers to employ and support people with disabilities, I don't see where these suitable jobs are that would mean people could survive without benefits.

I read an article somewhere that the real reason behind the rise in PIP is due to the economic conditions at the moment.

People are scrabbling for every penny. So they are applying for PIP to help with the cost of living. People who might not have bothered before need it now.

I'm sick of people saying that benefits need to be taken from those with anxiety and depression. I have anxiety and depression in the form of Major depressive disorder. I claim PIP. I can't work, I can barely go to the shops with out having a complete meltdown and I definitely can't leave the house alone.
The only treatment I get is medication because every time the GP refers me to something they turn me away because my depression is too much for them to treat or because I actively self harm.
I would give up everything to have a normal brain just for a week. It's not just a little bit of anxiety and it's so demeaning seeing people call those of us with MH problems fakers.

So you would like to pay people to check bank accounts, despite the fact that the contents of those accounts will never have any impact on PIP. How much are you personally hoping to pay to fund this service?

You keep missing the point. PIP is not an out of work benefit. It is not for people who can not work.

You have to send in tons of evidence. I had go records, specialist records, care plan, everything when l claimed. You can’t just say what you want.

I totally agree with you. I do think that is a big reason for the rise in applications.

Really? Why would the DWP encourage you to apply for PIP? What did that look like, this encouragement?

"Unsustainable"

This word comes up time and time again re Disability Benefits.

So what's the suggested solution then?

Invariably the implication is that the cost is an "unsustainable" burden. So what do you do when you have unsustainable cost? You cut spending.

So we cut the Disability Welfare payments.

This does nothing whatsoever to resolve the question of why so many people are ill and incapable in the first place. They don't suddenly become healthier because you have stopped their welfare payment, in fact, in a great many cases it will have precisely the opposite effect.

It's not the Disability Benefits bill which is "unsustainable", it's the system that leads to such a proportion of the potential workforce being unable to work which is unsustainable, and resolving that automatically resolves the financial aspect of having a burgeoning bill.

Regardless. Public spending is about choice, and what "unsustainable" really means is "we don't want to spend this amount of money on this". It does not mean the money isn't there, it means the government of the day would rather spend that money elsewhere. Quite happy to continue with the utterly ridiculous triple-lock on pensions which should have been removed at least 10 years ago, but nobody will touch that because pensioners are politically active, whereas nobody gives a shit about socially-isolated disabled folk or people with learning difficulties or illnesses which render it difficult for them vote or mean they likely have no interest in politics in the first place.

So perhaps the people who like to rant and rave about benefits and the welfare state, as if they genuinely are the cause of everything wrong with the perilous financial state of the UK, might want to consider how we end up such a sick and unable state in the first place, and why that has gone hand-in-hand with continual economic decline. Ordinarily, if you are working yourself into the ground, the payback is you benefit financially, so where is all the money actually going in the UK? It's certainly not being paid out in salaries.

I’m classed as disabled due to a health condition but I don’t view myself as such like many like me. There’s your 13%.

10% is unsustainable.

I am only hoping o ensure that people who need the benefit receive it and that those that don't do not. The disabled or and those that care for them should not get to mark the own homework.

Would you be happy with the police stripping your house and looking for evidence of a crime every so often?
If you have nothing to hide then why worry.

You sound like my cousin who works for the DWP and thinks that it's all in people's heads Undoubtedly the lions share of the demographic you both see include the chancers but just remember that PIP is generally supported by medical professionals who are more knowledgeable than you are.

Welfare are part of the problem.

The conversation needs to move towards how to create jobs and more flexible working for people who can do some work, but not work full time.

If I lose my job I will struggle because all the jobs of my level are either full time or too part time for me to afford to drop my pay. I also need hybrid or remote working. These jobs are rare. Employers are generally poor at reasonable adjustments and if presented with a candidate with a chronic illness, who will want you.

Does anyone know the age breakdown of the 10%? I’m wondering if rising retirement and pension age means more people are medically incapable of working or require adjustments funded by PIP to enable them to work?

PIP is not an out of work benefit, the contents of your bank account have no impact on getting PIP or not. What you are suggesting is as effective as banning anyone who has been to the moon claiming PIP. So again, how much are you willing to pay for this service?

New flash. Medical professionals are not infallible.

Isn’t that what the tax system does though? Some people are disabled enough, some people aren’t… I have MS, but I’m not disabled enough to get benefits, that’s fine. A line needs to be drawn.

Pip assessments are already brutal and designed to say no more than to say yes. When you say that there are people playing the system - how are they getting away with it, and what would be needed to catch them?

I'd be 100% all for actual medically trained people to be doing the PIP assessments - but I think that would lead to more people receiving it, not less.

The number of young people with MH conditions has skyrocketed. We need funding to work out why that is, and what is effective in prevention, as well as treatment.

Is 10% unsustainable? I don't have a clue. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I'd like to see some evidence to back up that supposition.

That makes no sense. Feel free to explain it more clearly.

Part of the increase in LCWRA and PIP is the increase in the pension age.