Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

Poverty causes so many negative outcomes and has such a massive impact on physical and mental health. It also goes hand in hand with other adverse factors such as addiction which further affects health. There are currently over 4m children in the UK living in poverty, many of them aren't going to grow up to be healthy adults and some of them even now will have long-term physical and mental health problems due to their circumstances.

One of the main steps that could be taken to alleviate this is investment in education, reinstating Sure Start which was proven to improve outcomes, invest in early help services, remove the two child cap, invest in social housing, and instigate targeted health and social care interventions.

I agree about way to much focus on mental health. It doesn't seem to be doing us any good this constant navel gazing. Mental health issues are also well documented to be contagious to the point there are press guidelines about reporting suicide.

Don't agree with the second bit though.

Oooh good luck. You'll be riding around in a Mobility Lamborghini soon! We've recently changed to a Rolls-Royce La Rose Noire Droptail 😍

How would you tackle this OP? The criteria for claiming PIP is high. Do you propose disabled people that are unable to work shouldn't be supported by benefits and go without. Or would you prefer we reduce the number of disabled people?

It’s a shame that having met parents of ASD children, and seen their struggles, and gone through the DLA process for your own child, you feel the way you do.

If a doctor is misdiagnosing someone with autism, they’re probably not a very good doctor.

Maybe it’s not about allowing people to question things but about educating the population as to the reality of being a disabled person trying to work and/or claim
benefits while managing a disability and/or health condition while the nhs is being run down for privatisation. (which if anyone is in any doubt would mean people with disabilities and long term health conditions would be unlikely to qualify for insurance or help making them more disabled/sick.) we should be questioning for more important and detrimental policies.

Questioning the status quo isn’t about understanding it’s usually about trying to improve your own lot in life at the expense of others particularly those who appear to get something you don’t or who appear to be taking your hard earned tax to live allegedly luxurious lifestyles. Questioning is punching down, how come they get that? Why do they deserve that? Aren’t they getting too much? You never see anyone “questioning” and asking why aren’t we doing more? Giving more? understanding more? You see the problem OP your questioning isn’t designed to help anyone.

I would love a tv show where people who moan about disability benefits are forced to live on disability benefits for 6 months with eligibility reassessments regularly and show how they fare. Makenitnrealnwithnthibgsclike evictions and finding a new deposit for a home etc The reality would terrify them.

and no 10% isn’t high considering 25% of the working age population (rising year on year as people approach 55 and beyond) meet the EA definition of disabled meaning 15% of disabled people aren’t claiming disability benefits.

Fivers you'll bloody freeze best chuck on the 50s.
There's the few scammers but it's not as rife as certain sections of the media make it out to be.
Dealing with DWP is hardly a laugh a minute and would say most claimants would rather have their health.

I’ve ordered him a Maserati for Christmas.

As soon as that money lands I’m going to book myself an all inclusive mega cruise around the whole planet, for at least the next 5 years, and just leave him with the servants.

They’ll look after him!

Not really though. You can tell your psychiatrist that you are suffering from debilitating anxiety. They will have to take our word for it and sign the papers. You can be awarded PIP for mh health problems that you exagerrate which is a problem for those who are truly suffering.

''@Pjnow · Today 19:49
I don't think disabled people are scroungers at all and I firmly believe they should be supported. I do think it seems highly unlikely that no one amoung 4m claimants is playing the system.''

That is the job of the DWP to assess claims and to reject the ones that are trying to ''play the system''.

It is not the job of disabled people to justify themselves.

Qualifying for PIP is not easy and you need to have evidence from health care professionals to support your claim and attend an assessment.

I am in that 10% category. I receive PIP and other disability benefits. I have long Covid which I caught as a front line worker in 2020.

I tried so hard to work that I gradually got worse. My function and quality of life is so low now. I would give anything to be able to work.

I had a NHS job and I asked for simple reasonable adjustments which were declined so my heath deteriorated.

I want to work and hope to work soon but employers won't/don't know how to support me so I can work. There are many others in my position.

The problem for someone in my position is I can work with the right support but finding an employer who can provide the right support is like finding a needle in a haystack

Sorry but you are talking rubbish. No one sees a psychiatrist and has papers signed. What papers are you on about?
People with mild mental health issues dont have a psychiatrist anyway. It is very hard to see one to start with.
The bar to get accepted for secondary mental health care is very high. Many people fall in the gap. Not unwell enough for secondary and too unwell for their GP.
I am on PIP for mental health reasons and also autism. Reading posts like yours makes me think that is what you think about all PIP claimants who claim for mental health. The press is also trying to divide people and make us out to be faking stuff for money.
I can assure that no one I know is exaggerating to get PIP. None of us wants to be in ill in the first place.

There are actual medical doctors who state humans can change sex so, yes, I can believe there are others captured in the same way here.

Laughing so hard at the “jokes” about burning money have to pay my £6k quarterly VAT bill tomorrow 🙄🙄 earned by my own efforts all to hmrc. You’re welcome 🙄

I have disabilities
one took 8 years to be diagnosed as missed by various doctors. Nearly lost my job
the second was 2 years from referral to operation. Endometriosis. Nearly lost my job again
I don’t claim PIP as my disabilities don’t affect me enough but the fatigue is unreal. Some days I get home, get in my pjs and go to bed and that means I can work FT and I sleep a lot at the weekend and on my days off

employers aren’t that understanding so people could work (maybe) but who is going to tolerate someone who is off sick every month?

What papers are you on about?

I've had mental health difficulties over the past 20 years. Only on one occasion was I referred to psychiatry. I'm not actually sure, he was now I reflect 🤔 but it was very much anti a diagnosis and about strategies to get well again

I haven't ever claimed PIP as my episodes were relatively short-lived. I'm struggling to imagine how easy it is to access a psychiatrist and then hood-wink them into believing I had severe difficulties when I don't.

PIP is not an out of work benefit and many people who claim it are in work because PIP helps them to stay in the work force.
I think some people could come off it if they had help with their issues but that just is not happening now.
I also think the rise in people claiming it is due to the cost of living crisis. Someone in the LCW group gets the same money as someone jobseeking which is not much at all. Who can blame them for applying for other benefits so they can afford to live. If they are awarded PIP then they are eligible for it.

I'm actually surprised it's only 10 % ..with the amount of discussion in the news I honestly thought it was a lot higher..
I can certainly think of ways to plug that gap , without taking it away from the disabled.

You're making assumptions there. I work, albeit part time nights, and my husband is a self employed tradesman who also pays VAT

Chucking some £50's on the fire now 🔥

I don't think you understand the joke really., I mean wouldn't you rather be fit and healthy to be able to work and pay a tax bill. If you are self employed and paying that much tax I assume you are well paid.

I think we approach the problem from the wrong perspective. Rather than suggesting it’s too easy to claim benefits as evidenced by the increasing number of people claiming them, shouldn’t we be asking if decades of underfunding in public services and public health have caused the increase?

Ok so looking at this:

over the last couple of decades the pension age has gone up.

the older you are the more likely you are to be disabled. There are some people who are born disabled but many more disabilities are acquired either through accident or disease or whatever.

as pension age has gone up, more people who would previously have been getting pension are now getting disability benefits because they have Parkinson’s/cancer/had a heart attack or stroke etc.

so as pension age goes up you’d expect there to be more people on disability benefits.

in addition, not all of the people on disability benefits are on them permanently. For example, it’s quite common for people with cancer to not be able to work while they are on chemo/radio/getting surgeries. They claim disability benefits. But quite a few of them recover and stop claiming disability benefits.

so the group of people on disability benefits can be split in three:

people who have been disabled from birth.

people who are on them temporarily while being treated/in an acute phase

people who have acquired a permanent disability.

I actually think 10% isn’t too bad given it includes all the people with cancer etc many of whom are waiting much longer than before for treatment.

There’s been a concerted effort to make life more difficult for disabled people, and to make life tremendously stressful for most people to the point where plenty are disabled by this - depression, chronic illness, neurodivergency and lack of appropriate environments.

It starts young, children pushed to high levels of stress at an early age, then societal horror and hand wringing at the increase of poor behaviour in schools and continual rise in numbers of SN and the cost of supporting stressed out children.

Society is reaping what it’s sowed, and unfortunately it’ll be the most vulnerable who will pay the price.

Absolutely not sustainable. DS received DLA as he is Type 1 diabetic. Did we need it? Nope. Should have been means tested. We were encouraged by the DWP to apply for PIP for him when he hit 16 as the DLA would continue until a decision was made. We declined - it was obvious from the conversation that not many people do.

DB is severely disabled and lives in sheltered accommodation- yes he definitely does need what he gets (although I would argue it could be about £200 less a month and it would still work).

I don’t know what the answer is OP but it is not working at the moment.