Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

Yeah it’s like Covid never happened. Which fucked up nearly half of young people mental health wise. Where’s the support for them?

And then there’s Long Covid which can induce Chronic Fatigue.

We are a sick nation with no proper health service. Let’s just kick the disabled a bit more.

We need to fix mental health services. They are an absolute shambles.

ok so people on PIP can exaggerate and lie to get PIP
And if they have medical evidence then the professionals must be lying or getting it wrong too.
In your world who is entitled to PIP?

I’m a high rate tax payer who also has a disabled child. Don’t worry, I pat myself on the back all of the time.

Don't you come around here spouting facts😡

I think one problem is that "benefits" is always seen to be the problem. I think the biggest problem is lack of work, or lack of flexibility of work. Even just on Mumsnet, there are frequently articles about how people's employers are giving them a hard time, not including them, not supporting them when something is not 100% with their health and they are struggling. If flexible working was the norm, and flexibility and support when people were not quite coping was freely offered, instead of having to be begged for, many more people could work.

Ok so then it’s instructive to define what disability is, if 23% of working age adults are classified in that way. It’s getting on for a quarter.

It cannot be problematic to ask about the definition. By the way I’m a proper lefty who fully supports the welfare state.

News flash, still more knowledgeable than people working in benefits. I didn't say infallible which is why I said generally

I have just been awarded the adult disability payment for chronic migraine. I am eligible for that money due to how I am affected by my disability. Billions of pounds of disability benefits go unclaimed. I'd love to be well again, to be able to work and earn but unfortunately I'm not well enough.

People want the disabled to work and come off benefits but people also don't want to be lumbered with a co-worker who is frequently off sick leaving them with extra work, what do people want us to do?

Which "problem", precisely?

It isn't a financial problem, because the UK can indeed easily afford the current Welfare bill, it just means there is less money to spend in other areas.

Are children a "problem" because we have to educate them and that costs?

Are old people a "problem" because they are living longer and we still consider it human to care for them in infirmity?

Why isn't there a load of shouting and bawling about the "unsustainable" education bill or the "unsustainable" care bill?

No, it's because sick and disabled people are an easy target and commonly unable to stand up for themselves, therefore it's more acceptable to suggest that the amount of money they cost is "unsustainable" and their need is somehow less worthy than the other costs.

Again, I ask anyone to explain how cutting welfare payments makes anyone healthier?

I think l read somewhere this is one of the causes. People in their late 50’s and 60’s who would have been retired are now having to claim pip as they are too disabled to work.

I’m sure it wasn’t, but the broader point I was making is that some of those who claim disability benefit are literally unable to be responsible for themselves.

My son will be one of them. He will be dependent on someone for the rest of his life. There are many others like him.

Instead of taking from vulnerable people who can’t support themselves, why don’t we consider encouraging people who can support themselves to do so. Over 4% of working age, working capable, people in this country don’t formally work. Many actually them do, but cash in hand. They’re not SAHPS, or self funded, they are a direct tax burden with no real cause.

Like I said in my initial response - do something about that, and then come back to me about those unable to contribute financially. Not you personally, obviously.

I wish I hadn’t read this thread just for pure ignorance like this.

My best friend has a physical disability and is currently on her 5th holiday in 12 months. She has friends and family and drives an adaptive car from her PIP. Her kids all get benefits from physical disabilities and she has a large house and disposable income. She gets extra help as her ex husband pays a huge amount of child maintenance.
My friend has never worked but has a busy happy fulfilled life with lots of support.
I would rather have the physical restrictions my friend has and would swap with her in a second. She has regular trips away as well as holidays, has massages and beauty treatments and days out, she has pain but it’s easier to control physical pain sometimes than mental pain.
My friend has admitted she has a much easier and happier life than me.

I have mental health problems but worked until I no longer could and worked from 14 until almost 40, I used to work 50-60 hours a week and have contributed into the tax system.

I have no family at all, my parents died young and I struggle to leave the house from anxiety. I don’t just mean I feel a bit uncomfortable or a bit anxious, I feel like I’m being buried alive or suffocating and am so flooded with adrenaline I feel paralysed. I have been a victim of sexual abuse and assault and I’m terrified when a man comes too close to me which can’t always be avoided.
I had a good day earlier this year where I made a short bus journey alone and this was a huge celebrated event from my mental health support workers. I didn’t celebrate, I wondered how I’d got to a place in life where such an insignificant thing to most people became something to be celebrated for me.

Every day I wake up and I wish I hadn’t, I’ve attempted suicide multiple times and now I’m just scared of another attempt going wrong and being in a worse position with lasting damage. I have panic attacks and spend a lot of days where I can’t stop crying and I’m very bitter and angry about life. I have bipolar where my mania can lead to unsafe situations and I lose complete touch with reality. My employers could no longer support me and other staff found me too difficult to work with.
I have addiction issues as sometimes drugs and alcohol were the only things to get me through life. I have eating disorders and am generally just a mess, I hope that I’ll get cancer soon and die like my parents from my lifestyle as it would take the decision away from me.
My best friend once said she thought it would be a blessing for me if I died as my life is so difficult.
I have been trying for 8 years to learn to drive but due to dyspraxia and anxiety it’s just another thing I have failed and makes my world even smaller.

My partner has just left me for a much younger woman after being my only support for the last 13 years and I did everything for him. I thought we were happy and he was the one person I felt safe with and could leave the house with but he suddenly decided he wanted children and I knew I could never have a child and risk them having the same mental and physical health problems.

I also have arthritis and gynaecological issues and am going to have to have a hysterectomy soon which I struggle to come to terms with. I have other physical problems as well but I could work if it wasn’t for my mental health.

I take medication, go to therapy, see my psychiatrist and engage with all services I’m offered. I’d give anything to return to work and have a purpose, feel less of a burden and spend time in the outside world instead of trapped inside day after day alone.

There are plenty of people in a similar situation to me. PIP isn’t an easy benefit to claim and it was suggested to me to attempt to claim multiple times over the years but I refused as I wanted to support myself. When I was awarded the biggest thing to me wasn’t about the money but the acknowledgement that I was struggling so much and that my mental health issues were taken seriously. Up until then I’d fallen into the common mindset that only physical problems counted.

I am not rolling in money, I get hardly enough to live on and use my credit cards every month as I run out of money. I’m in debt and am currently sitting in the cold as I can’t put afford to put the heating on with an empty fridge. I don’t have any luxuries or waste money, the cost of living means even if I wanted to then I couldn’t.

Lots of people seem jealous of people who don’t work but claim benefits. Would you swap places with me? I could die tomorrow and no one would know until I didn’t pay the bills.

Yeah, they all gang up together when you have to submit more than one piece of evidence. Just to make sure they’re all lying about the same thing. Wouldn’t do to be seen as infallible due to uncoordinated lying would it?

He's 20. He has improved, but still a long way from being able to work (amongst many other things that are currently not possible for him)

If you have used the NHS in the last 5 years you will know that your experience depends on luck. See maternity services, see sexism, see racism. I have seen the efficiency of of the health service through the experience of people through all of these lenses and in the north, south east and west of the country. Am I an expert? Hell no! But I know what I know.

Some of us don't exist in an echo chamber.

There is no "medical certificate,"

I'm not sure who is getting it so easily for anxiety and depression.....I have a 28 years history of mental illness and had PIP since it started and previously DLA and they've still denied me it across the board despite nothing changing on my most recent renewal .

Tbh though if the NHS actually offered more mental health support than a measly 6 sessions of CBT (which by the way rarely works for those who are autistic/ADHD as our brains function differently so it's not effective) that would massively help. Part of why I need the pip is to be able to fund 2 years of private therapy that I am unable to access via the NHS (both my GP and the NHs psych told me the only way to access it was pay privately).

And as a previous poster said, the majority of those with mentall illness never even get to see a goddamn psychiatrist, (looking at my medical rcords there were 20+ referalls to the CMHT made by my GP and they all got rejected due to me not actively trying to kill myself) and if you do the current format is basically to see you at crisis point and once you're not in immediate danger fob you back off to your GP. There isnt long term care now.

When I was too ill to work 13 years ago I had a psychiatrist, a community psychiatric nurse and an occupational therapist who I saw for 3 years, and that actually was the help and support I needed to be able to return to work part time..I genuinely feel if I'd had the further help I needed I might have been by now able to work full time, except I haven't and I can't.

And yes I do think UC is part of the problem. As a PP stated, previously under the tax credit system if you worked part time with a disability you were eligible for a top up. UC DOES NOT have that, in fact under UC unless you have LCW or LCWRA you will be forced into full time work. Which isn't suitable for a lot of disabled people. It drives me insane that a large proportion of disabled people COULD work if they were able to work part time and be topped up. Instead what's happening is they can't cope with the unreasonable demands and instead feel no other option but to apply for LCW to avoid being forced to work jobs they cannot so due to their disability.

Also it's all very well saying disabled people should be working, ok I understand that. But why is the onus on disabled people and not actual employers? Who we all know given the choice between a fot and healthy applicant and disabled one who needs reasonable adjustments is going to go with the former everytime? Also so many companies still use the goddamn Bradford scale for absences which when you're disabled or have a chronic condition means you are much much more likely to fall foul of and lose your job, even with my employer adjusting that I've still gone over the limit due to my disability

This may not be popular. There are plenty of under 16s who receive disability benefit, who are entitled to lead a perfectly normal life. They are at school for 190 days and those schools get no extra funding whatsoever. They go on foreign school trips, where staff are expected to care for them 24/ 7, with next to no training. Then at 16 they get the money for themselves. A lot of these pupils have very wealthy parents. Something is just not quite right...

The definition that most people use is the one in the equalities act.

a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities

Long term means 12 months or more.
Substantial has guidance and examples

There are a few things specifically excluded - i think hayfever and addiction

??? I’m taking about PIP.

I had info from gp, pyschologist, 2 other medical professionals and a care plan. They can’t all be wrong.

But a lot of these children have EHCp’s which ( supposedly) bring extra funding.

Here is an explanation why children are having so many mental health problems in the UK:

https://www.specialneedsjungle.com/not-compliance-issue-design-failure-psychologists-action-mental-health-harmful-school-policies/

It’s concerning that we have so many people with disabilities. Full stop. Let’s do something about that, then less benefits will be needed.

Let’s have a realistic conversation about keeping seriously ill people alive if they are going to have severe lifelong disabilities and zero quality of life.
Better maternity care so fewer babies are born with disabilities.
Many children would struggle less in school if the education system was reformed. At the moment it’s a one size fits all approach which doesn’t suit many ND children. Let’s have different pathways for different children rather than insisting everyone sits 10 GCSEs when a third of each cohort fail Maths and English anyway. There are more adaptations possible in the workplace than in schools.
More onus on employers to support flexible working, more rights for employees, more paid sick leave. At the moment where I work, anyone taking more than 10 days a year sick leave has to have a meeting with HR. 10 days in 12 months for someone working full time really isn’t a lot - it’s the equivalent of getting flu twice.
More mental health support. Is it any wonder so many people have mental health problems when we have so much on our plates? My employer provides a counselling service. Why can’t more employers do this?
Funding for GPs so people can actually see a doctor when they need to.

This, plus our population is ageing rapidly. Almost 50% of people over 50. An increase in rates of illness and infirmity seems inevitable.