Labour isn't working - Thread 15

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5430868-labour-isnt-working-thread-14?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Yeah you're right.
Putting that into context with today's PMQs, Davey could have gone in hard about Labour and China, but he chose to go on ex Reform Nathan Gill and his links to Russia. This is also not good obv, but Reform aren't in government rn. Labour are and they have questions to answer over China. Davey's question played right into Starmer's hands.
Confirms by suspicion that Davey is going soft on Starmer and wants to be friends. Daisy Cooper on the other hand regularly attacks Labour on their economic policies.

Well, I have told you my suspicions..has anyone ever seen Ed Davey and Ed Balls in the same room together, at the same time?

I never spell Davey's name right!

It is shocking, but not surprising because Jones appears weak and out of his depth.

@TheNuthatch oh my goodness, I didn't mean I was leaving this thread!

I meant, there was no point arguing with the people on the other thread who were blaming the conservatives for the decline in funding for adult education. no point in arguing online generally I mean.

So hello everyone! 😊

Oh good, I’m glad that was my assumption!!!!!

Snap 😂

I'm relieved to read that! I thought we'd upset you and I couldn't work out why.
Glad you're still here 😊

Luke Tryl (more in common) is on x, considering the implications of additional taxation on working people (he's working from a common understanding of the word working - not some bastardised workshopped definition of working) and talking about the implication on electoral trust that would follow if the government - who built a whole election on the promise of not raising income tax/ national insurance/ Vat - goes ahead and breaks that promise anyway.

He goes on to describe the thinking in play that the impact could be mitigated if the country could be convinced that the situation has changed dramatically since the election promises - and suggests that this would need to be a covid scale event for this excuse to hold water.

Then he adds, and it sums up my thinking, that progressives might be willing to accept Brexit as that excuse but it won't convince others that it is a new situation that justifies breaking manifesto promises. This tax hike would be a decision that rattles the electorate's trust capital with the government to an untenable low.

Starkly, he concludes: people don't yet recognise that traditional mainstream politics is in its last chance saloon. People who think that this is the kind of decision that can be rolled out in hope that it will be forgotten about come the next election are dreaming.

Okay, the phrasing of the last sentence was mine - but it captures the content.

Rachel Reeves is poised to repeat her record £40bn tax-raising Budget despite promising it was a one-off, economists have predicted.

Barclays on Wednesday forecasted that the Chancellor will look for £41.7bn in tax rises and spending cuts next month, roughly on a par with last year’s record £41.5bn raid. Labour’s struggle to cut spending means tax rises are expected to account for the majority.

"According to the official readout of today’s cabinet meeting, the chief secretary to the prime minister told ministers this: “We have to build a new state and shut down the legacy state, with digital ID making people's experience of that new state fundamentally much better.”
https://x.com/Peston/status/1983231551623016824

I mean that's not at all ominous, is it?

We all know how well govt IT projects go — cue the Star Wars Vader music…

It looks like Labour are set to blame Brexit for the budget. There was another hint from Starmer in that direction today. I think they are going to pretend that there have been some new and recent negative impacts from Brexit. For the benefit of our fan club, I don't doubt that Brexit has damaged the economy, but nobody believes that that damage has occurred only in the last 12 months. Labour will just look like gaslighting liars again to the vast majority of the population.

There hasn't been a pandemic or a new war in Europe. The only change has been Starmer & Co. Pretending otherwise will only damage Labour's credibility further.

🤢

Christ on a bike. Looks highly likely that they will be piling most of those tax rises on only a third of earners too. This budget will be political suicide for Labour, and they will lie to our faces as they deliver it.
Brace for impact, and let's hope it marks the beginning of the end for this government.

Just go away Starmer nutter.

Afraid so.

We use one the big four at the office - and their base case assumptions are pretty grim with a hike in income tax. Their thesis is that Reeves will try to spread the love, as it were - so that she can try to get ahead of the deficit, and in an attempt to avoid too much criticism from any one quarter.

I am pragmatic, and I have been around (sorry to bang on), but this is again going to cost many of us - I have the estimates for my personal circumstances, and its another hit. Something has to give - I cannot mitigate any more for the moment.

Work - increasingly - no longer pays.

Damn Labour.

I love how no nonsense and succinct your posts are Eastern 😁

Yes. This gvt tax people who work and pay people who don’t work. And look at the joyous results..

I see RR has ‘consulted an economist’…

1- I thought she Was an economist 👀

2- I guess the economist she’s consulted with also wants to buck the Laffer curve through sheer idiocy.

Haha 😬 I thought after posting I’d gone a bit far but that sell in of non manifesto digital ID really is the lowest of the low. I should oppose it more really, maybe protest.

It’s ideological warfare - sorry, but I cannot see it any other way. It feels very personal (to a group).

The consequences from the actions of this truly despicable government, will be felt for years after they have finally been kicked into touch.

I hope that Labour are hung, drawn and quartered on 26th Nov.

I definitely see the digital ID thing as ideological warfare.

The thing about gaslighting, if you keep it up, it works on some people. If it's not working, there's still an element of fatigue and feeling unable to do anything.

As we used to say in my US days "you can't fight City Hall". (and a total sidebar but the New York Mayor prospect looks pretty grim, hard to tell from this side of the pond if he really is a Marxist)

I still think this government are determined to do that - keep gaslighting until everybody is just fatigued. The only way it will stop is if there is a change of government.

At the weekend, someone in the pub said that Reform would win an election that was called now, and another chap said "that's ridiculous, Labour had a huge majority only last year". He would say that right wing voices are being amplified. I'm not so sure. I know he was extremely disappointed in Angela Rayner so I do wonder how he's feeling. He is definitely the group that will suffer in the Budget.

I think I mentioned before, that I met an accountant a networking event, and she said to me that "young people really are leaving the country". I've seen her again and she said outright that a lot of her clients are hugely worried about the Budget. She deals witn personal accounts rather than company accounts, but with so many individuals operating as companies there must be some crossover in what she does. I found it interesting that she was prepared to say that outright and in a professional environment. That said - the boundaries are virtually gone between personal and professional (which I don't like).

Jakers I go missing for a couple of days and you've all sped ahead. Haven't got the brain power with all the morphine so I'll just say keep going 👍👍

BTW, I noticed no one has mentioned the Uxbridge/Hillingdon murder. I understand why not. But to some extent, it shows the fatigue I think.

I found it particularly upsetting that the victim turned out to be a refuse collection worker. Such crucial people in society. I don't mean to suggest one human life is different than another. It just really moved me. I remember when my dad used to stand around early in the morning at Christmas, not that long ago, to give them their Christmas gift money.

It was before all those services were outsourced and you actually knew the local refuse collectors. Now it's all been outsourced around here so they come at different times and you don't know who anyone is. I also knew mine back in the day. I still say good morning when I see any around and about, but honestly in London it became pointless. They thought I was being weird, so I stopped doing it.

There's definitely more of a sense of community where I am now, fortunately local street cleaners haven't changed, they know me and mum - but we still have the outsourcing thing with most activities. And we still have a council who have a very healthy balance, but not much of it is spent on stuff that's of value to the local community.

There's no party that I know of, that wants to deal with this sort of thing.

maybe I sound like a total nutter? But was it ever the best model, the way council services are run now? Is it about trying to provide too much?

hello! How did it go? Thanks for posting

The Uxbridge murder is getting a lot of traction on X - I agree it's very upsetting to see the image of that poor man in his work uniform. He should have been entitled to his peaceful life.