Labour isn't working - Thread 14

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5427475-labour-isnt-working-thread-13?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

The pressure from Wales and anyone not wanting a wipeout next May will now be the opposite.

That’s the concerning part. A Reform win would see them scrabbling another way.

Now they think it’s because they’re not spending enough, taxing or borrowing enough.

"The "there's no money left" note was a 2010 memo written by former UK Treasury Chief Secretary Liam Byrne to his successor, David Laws, which stated: "Dear Chief Secretary, I'm afraid there is no money. Kind regards - and good luck!". Although Byrne said the note was meant to be a joke, it was widely criticized as foolish and flippant, and he later expressed regret for it. "

Sadly I suspect the next note will say "There's no money left, we're in so much debt you'd not believe, there is no farmland left as it's been built on or rewilded, we import all our food from countries who have low welfare standards for animals and high pesticide use, we have got rid of small scale landlords and now the PRS is owned by monstrous companies who are worse than Rachman, Tax levels are so bad people have no money and the economy has completely tanked, everyone is in massive debt with no prospect of getting out of trouble.
BUT inflation is only 2% and the BOE rate is 0.0001%.

Do they really think that? Or are they just pretending to / fooling themselves into that way of thinking? Because the alternative - they are really shit at managing the country and everyone hates them, doesn’t compute.

Yes agree @Northquit its great news interest rates are zero a no one has any money to save and we’re drowning in debt, huzzah!

I got the same vibe from Nick T-S this morning. He was blaming lack of spending, tories, 14 yrs, austerity etc. Deputy first minister has moaned about Labour focusing on immigration rather than COL.
They'll feel pressure to lean left now imo.

Verbatim no doubt.
Also, sorry we have no SMEs left, they all went bust. Toodles.

Brilliant note @Northquitsums it up

@AbsentosaurusRexI’m not sure who it was perhaps the Nick guy but Labour in any case, he talked about Reeves not doing / doing three things - WFA cut, Welfare spending attempts to cut and not lifting two child benefit. And then went on about being bold with taxing and borrowing more.

He really sounded like he thought those things were the answer. Idk if that pressure will feed through but it’s looking depressing, although the markets can always react and help us out.

They might now know that they are almost universally disliked but they still need to throw a bone to the supporters and backbenchers to keep the ideological lights on and that favours reading the runes in a particular light. Otherwise they might face a no confidence vote.

That's a very interesting metric. I just looked it up, and I admit I had to double-check, since it's quite mind-blowing

£111.2bn on debt serving expected 2024-25
Median UK income: £31,602
Income tax £3,806.40 NI £1,522.56:
ie total direct tax for a median earner £5,328.96

20 million median earners entire direct tax contribution would be required to service the UK's debt.

That's 20 million out of a total of 37.4 million tax payers, of which 30 million are basic rate payers.

Of course, there are other forms of tax, but income tax and NI together make up 46% of government revenues.

Yet Labour supporters still say 'good riddance' to the thousands of millionaires Labour is chasing out of the UK. The millionaires who are paying for everything else.

We're losing twice as many millionaires as the next-worst country: China. Which has a population of 1.4bn (so per head of population, 40 times more than China), We're losing them at 20 times the rate of France.

Jesus, I mean I had a vague idea it was up there but this is exactly the type of thing that the voting public should know.

Mel Stride keeps talking about the £100bn to give him credit. Not sure anybody is listening though. Its scary.

Didn't Hermer have to answer questions on his involvement in the collapse of the China spy case yesterday in advance of the Parliamentary hearing next week. Are the answers known yet or are they not public till next week?

I doubt they’ll care. They didn’t care enough to show up before the votes were cast and no matter what I feel about the other parties they threw everything at it, Farage was there numerous times and Plaid campaigned endlessly. All Welsh labour could come up with was this ⬇️ They didn’t even try because they’re always been so arrogant that Wales would be red but now Plaid and Reform have changed all of that.

You see on here the left want more. There’s ever increasing demands for more state support.

And the problem is, we’ve got huge numbers of non tax payers who reject the idea that things have to be paid for at all, or certainly that they have a part in paying for them. People who say it’s sad to get self esteem from work, they want bartering back, austerity is a political choice, they don’t care about the debt as they don’t think a default would be that bad, the markets are bad for the environment, they don’t believe in capitalism etc. scary times.

Yes they do. Even when seeing the numbers above, they want more tax, more borrowing, more spending.

Yes, you see it along grandiose statements like, we are a rich country - and you just have to wonder where they all think this money is coming from to keep afloat the people and the children of 10,000,000 working age adults who do not work and the ever raised bar of expectation and ever lowered bar of what hardship looks like?

Not sure. I thought he had until today, but I may have misremembered.
I'm fully on board with the dead cat theory now, that this has been deliberately layed out by Labour to distract from other things. Looking at you Darren Jones.
Maybe Mandy is enjoying another holiday on a Russian super yacht 😂

Dread to think what distraction techniques might be in store for us on Tuesday then.

There still are people who want to work with minimal state support, they will pay taxes and take the majority of that burden already but not to opting out levels which is where we are now and Labour pushing further.

So that group goes down and state dependency and support goes up, then what?

Starmer's Comms team clearly can't be arsed to address the Caerphilly results, X is just more shilling for I.D. cards today.

then what?

The bubble bursts and they blame the tories. That's the usual MO. Round and round we go.

I don't envy the next government, whoever they are. I just hope they have a decent majority and public good will. They'll need it after this Labour stint.

FFS
Do they want to lose? Its the only plausible explanation at this point.

And then the whole financial merry-go-round grinds more slowly and the social safety nets that were set in place to protect the most vulnerable in society are in frantic jeopardy.

The welfare state will shrink, it just won't be a controlled and sensible decline. It'll be hacked at frantically to stop the boat sinking.

The left and Reform.